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mcdougal7

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I have not had time to read all suggestions so I hope I'm not repeating, but one thing I would love to have, that most calculators don't, is the effect of sf amount on the soap profile properties. For example how raising sf affects conditioning, bubbles, hardness, etc.
 

mcdougal7

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20181010_082629.png When expanding oil properties, is there a way to lock the column headings and make them static when you scroll down, so you know which property you're looking at when you've scrolled to the middle of the list?
 

DeeAnna

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...one thing I would love to have ... is the effect of sf amount on the soap profile properties. For example how raising sf affects conditioning, bubbles, hardness, etc.
A change in the superfat doesn't change the soap profile properties one bit. These profile numbers represent various combinations of the fatty acids in the recipe. The fatty acid profile is constant for a given blend of fats -- it doesn't change if you're looking at the fats themselves or if you're looking at soap made from those fats. More: https://classicbells.com/soap/soapCalcNumbers.html

Higher superfat suppresses lather, whether it has a bubbly or creamy texture, and it suppresses cleansing, but both of these changes happen because there is simply more free fat in the soap. When soap has to emulsify fat, it's not available to make suds or to cleanse further. You see this happen whether the fat comes with the soap (aka superfat) or whether the fat is on a greasy object that you're washing (dishes or greasy hands).
 

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@Yooper and @SaltedFig -- is this what you want? I haven't been following the discussion, just reading enough to get the most recent context, so I hope I'm not too off base with this --

Typical dosage is 10 g to 30 g citric acid powder for every 1,000 g fats (1% to 3% ppo). Use more for hard water, less for soft.

When making soap using NaOH (sodium hydroxide), calculate the extra NaOH needed this way:

Decide the percent of citric acid to use. If you are not sure, I suggest 2% ppo (20 grams citric acid per 1000 grams of fats).

Find how many grams of fat are in the soap recipe.

Calculate the citric acid weight:

Citric acid weight, grams = Fat weight, grams X 2 / 100

If you are using a dosage other than 2% ppo, replace the "2" in the formula above with the percentage you are actually using.​
Calculate the NaOH needed to neutralize the citric acid:

NaOH for citric acid, grams = Citric acid weight, grams X 6.24 / 10​
Calculate the total NaOH for your recipe:

Total NaOH, grams = NaOH for citric acid, grams + NaOH for saponification, grams​

The 6.24 factor for NaOH changes to 8.42 for KOH.

More: https://classicbells.com/soap/citricAcid.html
THANK you! I was just about to PM you and beg for this information! Thanks to you, I think we'll have the citric acid calculations worked out.
 

Yooper

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@Yooper and @SaltedFig -- is this what you want? I haven't been following the discussion, just reading enough to get the most recent context, so I hope I'm not too off base with this --
I know we can't have every additive in our list, but another common additive from what I can tell is vinegar. I don't know why or what it does- but if it is added, we'd also have to have the calculation for the additional lye.

Is this something people would want added? Or is done so rarely that the individual should add it as a custom ingredient?
 

Steve85569

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Higher superfat suppresses lather, whether it has a bubbly or creamy texture, and it suppresses cleansing, but both of these changes happen because there is simply more free fat in the soap. When soap has to emulsify fat, it's not available to make suds or to cleanse further. You see this happen whether the fat comes with the soap (aka superfat) or whether the fat is on a greasy object that you're washing (dishes or greasy hands).
DeeAnna,
Is there a way to calculate the effects of superfat on a given recipe or are there just too many variables? I ask because if anybody knows it would be the resident chemist ( I think) .
TIA
 

mcdougal7

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A change in the superfat doesn't change the soap profile properties one bit. These profile numbers represent various combinations of the fatty acids in the recipe. The fatty acid profile is constant for a given blend of fats -- it doesn't change if you're looking at the fats themselves or if you're looking at soap made from those fats. More: https://classicbells.com/soap/soapCalcNumbers.html

Higher superfat suppresses lather, whether it has a bubbly or creamy texture, and it suppresses cleansing, but both of these changes happen because there is simply more free fat in the soap. When soap has to emulsify fat, it's not available to make suds or to cleanse further. You see this happen whether the fat comes with the soap (aka superfat) or whether the fat is on a greasy object that you're washing (dishes or greasy hands).
I guess I didn't word that properly, as what you said is actually what I meant. In recipes where you raise the SF to counteract the cleansing, such as 100% coconut with a high SF, it would be awesome to know the result of different levels of SF. I know of only one calculator that takes this into consideration.
 

DeeAnna

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@mcdougal7 -- What calc is that? I'd like to check this out for myself. To be honest, I'm not sure I'd be real confident about info like this, but I'm open to looking into it. What I know to be true from listening to people here is the correlation between superfat and the perception of tightness/dryness/stripping is highly variable. What works for one person won't work at all for another.

@Yooper -- Similar info about using vinegar is also on my website http://classicbells.com/soap/soapystuff.html. I think it's a fairly commonly used additive based on repeated questions about vinegar here on SMF. I think it would be worth including in a recipe calc.
 

artemis

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another common additive from what I can tell is vinegar. ....
Is this something people would want added? Or is done so rarely that the individual should add it as a custom ingredient?
Looking back through this entire thread (there's a lot to sift through, I know) I see many posts where someone is asking for vinegar and/or citric acid as another calculation they'd like to see in the calculator. I think it would be appreciated.

For myself, I have not tried these ingredients because math and I do not get along. Having a calculator figure it out for me would make me more comfortable trying it out for the first time.
 

mcdougal7

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I know we can't have every additive in our list, but another common additive from what I can tell is vinegar. I don't know why or what it does- but if it is added, we'd also have to have the calculation for the additional lye.

Is this something people would want added? Or is done so rarely that the individual should add it as a custom ingredient?
What calc is that? I'd like to check this out for myself. To be honest, I'm not sure I'd be real confident about info like this, but I'm open to looking into it. What I know to be true from listening to people here is the correlation between superfat and the perception of tightness/dryness/stripping is highly variable. What works for one person won't work at all for another.
@mcdougal7 -- What calc is that? I'd like to check this out for myself. To be honest, I'm not sure I'd be real confident about info like this, but I'm open to looking into it. What I know to be true from listening to people here is the correlation between superfat and the perception of tightness/dryness/stripping is highly variable. What works for one person won't work at all for another.

@Yooper -- Similar info about using vinegar is also on my website http://classicbells.com/soap/soapystuff.html. I think it's a fairly commonly used additive based on repeated questions about vinegar here on SMF. I think it would be worth including in a recipe calc.
@mcdougal7 -- What calc is that? I'd like to check this out for myself. To be honest, I'm not sure I'd be real confident about info like this, but I'm open to looking into it. What I know to be true from listening to people here is the correlation between superfat and the perception of tightness/dryness/stripping is highly variable. What works for one person won't work at all for another.

@Yooper -- Similar info about using vinegar is also on my website http://classicbells.com/soap/soapystuff.html. I think it's a fairly commonly used additive based on repeated questions about vinegar here on SMF. I think it would be worth including in a recipe calc.
It is mysoapcalc.com . Cathy Sagun, the creator is a chemist, so I assume it is somewhat reliable. But I would love to have an alternative, as there are a few things I don't really enjoy with mysoapcalc.com
@mcdougal7 -- What calc is that? I'd like to check this out for myself. To be honest, I'm not sure I'd be real confident about info like this, but I'm open to looking into it. What I know to be true from listening to people here is the correlation between superfat and the perception of tightness/dryness/stripping is highly variable. What works for one person won't work at all for another.

@Yooper -- Similar info about using vinegar is also on my website http://classicbells.com/soap/soapystuff.html. I think it's a fairly commonly used additive based on repeated questions about vinegar here on SMF. I think it would be worth including in a recipe calc.
 

Dawni

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Did I miss it completely or the question of "What is stable?" was never answered? Has it to do with shelf life? Lather? Something else?

I know the longevity was answered (thank you for that very informative post btw, DeeAnna), and so was the cleansing and conditioning........... In line with this, are there any other terms we can use other than those to avoid misinterpreting them? As a newbie I find I rely heavily on them and was disappointed that I completely misunderstood (some of) them.

Also, this is me using an Android (tiny-ish) phone, and me being nitpicky but the top of the page needs some space for my name lol.

_20181011_021522.JPG

I'll fiddle around with this and post more as I go along, but so far, for a newbie, it's been easy to use (a little difficult scrolling for fats using a phone but that's my problem not the calcs lol) and it looks nice.

I agree with someone that being able to choose a color scheme will be great.
 

DeeAnna

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It is mysoapcalc.com . Cathy Sagun, the creator is a chemist...
Thank you -- I appreciate the link!

She did a nice job overall. I skimmed her tutorial on how to use the calc and also quickly entered a simple recipe and calculated the results. I don't see where she explains how she takes superfat into account along with the fatty acid profile to determine how suo offsets the "cleansing" property. Some of "the numbers" don't seem to correlate with the Soapcalc numbers that have the same names. I didn't see any place where she defines any of the terms she uses. Admittedly I spent only 10 minutes on this, so I could have missed it, but it didn't pop out at me during that time.

edit: To relate this back to the thread (I apologize for hijacking) -- I think it's really critical to have all the terms and concepts defined and easy for people to find. Otherwise, people make assumptions that may not be correct and people may not get the most out of the calc that they could.
 
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amd

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Also, I asked about masterbatching in the main forum, but didn't really get anything helpful for the calculator.
I believe that the masterbatched lye in most cases is 50%(?). When you use this liquid then, what is your procedure for doing so, say when you are using soap calc? I want to be able to follow the procedure, since I've never done it, and we'd like to have it in the calculator.
@Yooper did you ever get a clear answer for masterbatching?

As I said before in previous posts... This is how SM3 handles lye masterbatching in their calculator:
upload_2018-10-10_14-30-24.png
On the left under Lye: enter the lye discount (or superfat, however you want to call it).
There is a check box by use pre-mixed lye this refers to the masterbatch solution.
With the box checked, it then asks me to enter the ratio of my masterbatch solution. In my case I use 1 part lye to 1 part water. Underneath the water to lye ratio of my lye solution (premix), it tells me how much of the solution I need to measure out for my recipe.
When the box isn't checked, it gives me the lye weight only for my recipe.

On the right: I have entered the lye solution strength that I need. This then tells the calculator how to calculate how much extra water I need. Please note: Even though I have 25% noted, the Extra water shows as zero because I am using an additive (beer) to replace my remaining water. If I did not have the Adjust water checked on the additives page, then the calculator would show 4.41 oz under Extra Water.

So the calculation for masterbatching should be something like this:
(x part lye)lye amount + (x part water)lye amount = lye solution (premix) needed

The calculator needs to take the total amount of water needed for the recipe based on lye concentration or water ratio and subtract the amount of water in the lye solution from the total water amount needed. This would give the maker the extra water needed.
 

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I find the drop-down oil list time consuming, and would rather see something open where checks could be entered with all the oils. I did like the break-downs offered of what the values in the soap are.
 

Yooper

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@Yooper did you ever get a clear answer for masterbatching?
I did- but your example was very helpful so thank you for that. It will help us make it clearer for all who wish to use it.

I find the drop-down oil list time consuming, and would rather see something open where checks could be entered with all the oils. I did like the break-downs offered of what the values in the soap are.
I type in, say, O to look for olive oil. I find that easy. What do you mean about checks entered? I don't think all the oils could show on one screen, and then it would be scrolling. Or am I missing what you are saying?
 

SusanP

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I did- but your example was very helpful so thank you for that. It will help us make it clearer for all who wish to use it.



I type in, say, O to look for olive oil. I find that easy. What do you mean about checks entered? I don't think all the oils could show on one screen, and then it would be scrolling. Or am I missing what you are saying?
No, you got it. I didn’t realize I could narrow the search by typing. Thank you!
 

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Fragrance Oil Weight is incorrect when selecting Percentage as Unit of Measure and selecting g/kg for the fragrance amount.
Under "Select Units of Measure" Select Percentage
Enter 1000 grams
Under "Fragrances" select g/kg and enter 30
Select any oil @ 100%
The "Results" Fragrance Oil Weight = 1875 grams (s/b 30 grams)
 
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Fragrance Oil Weight is incorrect when selecting Percentage as Unit of Measure and selecting g/kg for the fragrance amount.
Under "Select Units of Measure" Select Percentage
Enter 1000 grams
Under "Fragrances" select g/kg and enter 30
Select any oil @ 100%
The "Results" Fragrance Oil Weight = 1875 grams (s/b 30 grams)
Thanks for reporting , Fixed!
 

Nanditasr

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1. I love the new look -- it's really convenient that it adds up the percentages as you go, and you don't need to click to see results. I also like the longevity bit.
2. What does "stable" mean? For most oils, it seems to be the same as "longevity", i.e., the sum of palmitic and stearic. However, for castor oil, I notice that it says longevity:0 and stable: 90.
3. I like the Expand option under the Oils. Would it be possible to keep the header fixed? If I scroll down, I cannot see the header.
4. Under Select recipe units of measure, do we really need the first line? I don't know anyone actually adds oils by weight and builds the recipe; I'm guessing everyone uses a percentage?
5. Anyway, if I do choose "grams" in the first line, it correctly shows the total in grams but still displays the unit for each oil as % -- see screen shot.
upload_2018-10-11_18-2-13.png
6. This one is a Chemistry question -- wondering if someone (@DeeAnna, @SaltedFig, anyone else?) can suggest a way for it to be incorporated into the calculator. What causes olive and castor oils to form hard bars after cure (even though the numbers here give them 0 and 17 respectively), and is there any way to reflect this in the calculator?
 
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Yooper

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The masterbatching feature is now live- could those of you who do this check it out, and see if it's what you need? It would be really great if it could be compared to SM3.
 
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