Need Help.. super fast trace

[ashdigger]

OK guys I need a few suggestions and a lot of help. I have made 100's of batches of soap and all of the sudden things are getting out of hand. Here's my problem, Measure out my Lye and water, mix and set aside to start cooling. Then I measure out my hard oils, melt and stir until basically clear, then mix the liquid oils, (helps cool the hard oils) and wait for temps to get around 85 -90 prior to mixing. Prior to final mix I add any color and fragrance. After temps are right I slowly mix my lye water into the oils, within in 5 seconds of blending (not exaggerating) thick trace and prior to pouring it goes to thicker trace and its hard to pour even.. Real hard to mix separate colors like this when you don't have time to pour. This is been a good recipe for me it really lathers and has lots of bubbles good.
Here is my last batch recipe 80 oz;
I use O.8 fragrance ratio, Last batch used Candle science Ocean Breeze works well several times prior
Fragrance 4.o 113 grams
Castor oil 7% 159 grams
Coconut Oil 25% 567 grams
Olive Oil 48% 1088 Grams
Crisco (palm) 20% 454grams
Distilled water 862 grams
Lye 317 grans

I use micas and TD for white

Would appreciate any help!
Thank You

 

[lenarenee]

When you say 100s of batches - did you mean with the same recipe you have listed? Is your olive oil pomace?

Off the top of my head, I'm wondering if the fo has been reformulated. Depending on how many times you've recently experienced this rapid trace, I'm thinking it's the fo's. If not, them maybe your oils are actually much cooler than you thought.

 

[Obsidian]

Nothing about your recipe screams fast trace to me so I would guess its your fragrance. florals, water and spice type scents are known to accelerate. Try a small batch of this recipe with no scent or color, see how it behaves.

 

[DeeAnna]

Another possibility is one or more of your fats has an unusually high fatty acid content. Fatty acids react with lye a LOT faster than fats.

So are these fast tracing recipes made with fat that is new to you?

 

[ashdigger]

just changed brands of coconut oil, but its done this even with my old brand. I have a couple of other recipes that I use alot also, without and with Lard and some with Sunflower oil but basically the same... what I meant by batches was giving a little experience, I havent actually made 100 batches with this recipe.. I know that what Im struggling with..
Thanks..

 

[cmzaha]

Castor can make a big difference in trace time. I would cut the castor to no more than 5% When I want a slow mover I cut castor to 3% you would be amazed the difference it makes. Also make sure your oils are warm enough to be clear. I tend to soap with cloudy oils but know how my recipe acts, mine will go to what many call a false trace then will thin out when the lye starts heating up the batter

 

[Cellador]

Have you tried adding the FO after mixing lye & water? I know some people rely on that method but it has never worked for me.

 

[DeeAnna]

Anything new in the equipment department? New stick blender? New soap pot?

Another suggestion -- It might be a combination of several things that have changed slightly, not any one particular thing that's changed a lot, so readjusting your technique and recipe a bit might be helpful to compensate for those small differences. Obviously you don't like the dance you're dancing with this soap, but until you try changing the dance steps, you'll be stuck.

One technique change to consider is to use your stick blender less. Five seconds of SB'ing is much longer than I'd do right at first. You might try just hand stirring 30 seconds, buzz with SB for 1 second, hand stir 30 sec, buzz 1 more second, hand stir a bit more. By that time, you'll probably be at emulsion, and you can move on to doing your design. A buzz or two to blend in the colorants. After all that, the stick blending time might be 5 seconds total -- but spread out over maybe 5-10 minutes of elapsed time, not all up front.

 

[ashdigger]

The FO was from a bottle I have had for a little, so it shouldn't be a problem, as for the blender I actually use a spatula to stir prior to SB but that may help to slow to really short burst but its starting to set in just a couple of seconds. I guess I never realized that Castor oil would help accelerate trace, I understand that some colorants and FO's will do that but I guess I just missed that with Castor oil. I actually use to add the FO after I had added the lye water to the oils and sometimes that would start trace fast, so I went to adding the colors and FO in the oil just prior to the lye. Anyone else put color and FO in their oil before the Lye? I'm just trying to figure whats different,
Thanks all..

 

[penelopejane]

I SB the FO in with the oils and then put the lye, wait, then handblend before finally SB.
It give me more control.

It could be a reformulated FO. It has Citrus in it and apparently there is a world shortage of the citrus FO so a lot of fragrances have had to be quickly reformulated just recently.

Is the castor oil a new addition?

I can't believe you make this recipe at such low temps. It would trace very fast for me at those temps and end up with huge swirls of hard oils through the soap. I'd try soaping warmer and see if that helps.
But if you've done it this way lots of times before that might not have anything to do with it.

The only other thing I can think of is if are you using pomace. It is very unpredictable because of the way it is produced.

 

[KristaY]

One thing that occurred to me is your TD. How do you use it? Mixed in water, glycerin or oil? SB'd in dry? I've noticed when I use TD & AC mixed in water, the portion of the batter I used it in always traces faster. If I add it to the whole batch I always know I have to work fast.

The only scents I add to the oils prior to lye are well behaved EO's like lavender, tea tree and lemongrass. I got tired of having the rapid trace problems you described. Now I bring my batter to emulsification, divide, color, then add FO. From there I can do intricate design or a quick ITP dump if things get crazy. I also soap a lot warmer than RT, especially with palm. I prefer about 110F.

Good luck and I hope you solve the problem soon. That kind of thing is so annoying!

 

[cmzaha]

One thing that occurred to me is your TD. How do you use it? Mixed in water, glycerin or oil? SB'd in dry? I've noticed when I use TD & AC mixed in water, the portion of the batter I used it in always traces faster. If I add it to the whole batch I always know I have to work fast.

The only scents I add to the oils prior to lye are well behaved EO's like lavender, tea tree and lemongrass. I got tired of having the rapid trace problems you described. Now I bring my batter to emulsification, divide, color, then add FO. From there I can do intricate design or a quick ITP dump if things get crazy. I also soap a lot warmer than RT, especially with palm. I prefer about 110F.

Good luck and I hope you solve the problem soon. That kind of thing is so annoying!

I do what you do. I never dump my fragrance in my oils before adding the lye. If I have a new fo I usually plain 2 colors, my base color and 1 for a swirl, so I have a problem I can plop it in and get the batter in the mold

 

[DeeAnna]

I personally soap warmer too -- maybe 95 to 105 F, but basically pleasantly warm to the touch. My recipes are high in lard, however. I thought with the OPs recipe with a high % of liquid fats, the lower temp would be fine. But you never can tell -- soaping a wee bit warmer might be another thing to try.

 

[ashdigger]

I think that may be it I have started mixing at lower temps recently for what ever reasons, I think I will cut back on the Castor oil % and raise it back up around 110, I will test a batch in a day or so and let you guys know. I really thank you all for the input I was starting to get a little concerned...
THANKS AGAIN.. I will let you all know..