Mystery ingredient.

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Drchurchillsoaps

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So if you were to get an oil/butter that you had zero data on. How would you go about using said product? I have a friend that wants me to use his cannabis “butter”, he runs a c02 extraction setup and ends up with byproduct of pounds of plant fats, lipids, and smaller chain terpenes. So it has the consistency of butter, slight cannabis aroma and a very light green tint when in larger amounts. Smaller mason jars look to be more ivory almost like Shea. I’ll start researching but if anyone can point me in a direction please do. He claims friends of his have been making anti inflammatory balms for horse racing and boxing/cage fighting. Says the anti inflammatory properties are great and he has a market but no product. He also wanted to try a batch of soap and I have no idea how to come up with a SAP value.
 

kagey

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I would want a chemical analysis of it to make sure it's really "oil" with fatty acid... otherwise, I'd use it as an additive, in the same way you might use it like aloe vera.
To get a chemical analysis, you can reach out to independent chemical labs, FDA... or try a local university... chemistry department... and see if they may take it up as a class project.
I don't know of any home fatty acid tests that exist, but I may be wrong on that.
 

earlene

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Cannabis and hemp are the same species, with the difference being that hemp has less THC, so in a lye calculator, I would use Hemp Oil for that butter. With the CO2 set-up, perhaps it is somewhat hydrogenated, but I don't think you are going to be using this in large enough amounts to really worry about minor differences between it and plain hemp oil.

Sure you could get an analysis, but that's an expensive process, and it sounds as if the end product may not be exactly the same with each production anyway.
 

ScentimentallyYours

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Cannabis and hemp are the same species, with the difference being that hemp has less THC, so in a lye calculator, I would use Hemp Oil for that butter.
Yes, what @earlene said. :nodding: (oh no! I discovered how to insert an emoji from the menu above!)

I had the same problem trying to ascertain calculations for myrtle wax in the Franklin soap recipe. From nature with love had a range listed for the SAP value, but my wax came from a different source. I ended up using the boiled soap method used by the Franklin women. My next myrtle wax experiment will be to use cold process in very small batches. My new scale arrived today, so myrtle wax soap is on my project list.

If you have a very accurate scale down to .1 g or better, you can do very small test batch and see how it comes out. I think Kevin Dunn had some methods for testing the final SAP, but the hemp oil calculation should work very well. Again, when pioneering, small test batches are the way to go.

p.s. I’m not sure why you would put active CBDs into soap. Wouldn’t it be more effective as a leave on product?
 

TheGecko

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He claims friends of his have been making anti inflammatory balms for horse racing and boxing/cage fighting. Says the anti inflammatory properties are great and he has a market but no product.
He is correct. I use a CBD lotion for my hands and it reduces swelling, inflammation and pain.

But CBD in soap is a complete waste of money because there is ZERO benefit. Remember, soap is a wash on/rinse off products that is maybe on your skin for 5 to 10 minutes depending on how your shower/bathe.

With that said, CBD products are ‘hot’ right now, but I urge extreme caution before engaging in the manufacture of Cannabis derived products regardless that it is legal in your state. Now under the 2018 Farm Bill, I can legally make and sell CBD bath and body products derived from Hemp, but CBD products derived from Cannabis…our state has a stranglehold on it and it would be very cost prohibitive. And with that said, I can make products for household personal use so long as the persons in my household are at least 21, but again, it’s expensive.
 

ResolvableOwl

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I'd be extremely cautious about rancidity. Hemp-family oils (including hops) are very rich in poly-unsaturated compounds that are sensitive to oxygen. Who knows how much or how little your friend knows/cares about DOS?
Best add ROE as early as possible, store it dark and cool (or even better: tell your friend to do so!). As a guesstimate, it's best used at 20% maximum, with no other soap ingredient higher in poly-unsaturated FAs than, say, olive oil.

Then, the buttery consistency makes me wonder if it's really mostly triglyceride (fat/oil), or if it has a lot of waxes/rosin in it? Virtually all oils from plants that grow in temperate climates are very low in saturated fatty acids, hence liquid at room temperature, not “buttery”. It would be a concern from the soapmaker's perspective that you are bringing a lot of stuff that isn't exactly a soap precursor at all.

Then, SAP. The only way to know is titration (make a lye-heavy soap, dissolve it in water + pH indicator, and add acid until you have neutralised the excess alkali). It depends on how serious you are about this ingredient if it's worth the hassle. If you decide for a full-blown analysis (with iodine value, FA profile via gas chromatography, etc.), then just also include saponification value.

In any case, you are somewhat dependent that the process your friend is using, is reliable/replicable enough that the product is consistent with itself across time. If you have got such an analysis protocol, you won't know to which degree it applies to the next batch you're receiving … or next year. Is a false sense of security better than no certainty about nothing?
 

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