My first soap recipe (actually 2 ;)

[JoostD]

Well, just remember that the smaller the batches the more of a reliable weight you need, one that measure down to (at least) 1 gram, preferably 0.01. Because 1 gram error on the lye or other ingredients in a 100 gram batch will make a bigger difference than if you had 1 gram error in a bigger batch. Less wiggleroom.

(I apologize if this has already been mentioned and I overlooked it, then please ignore this superfluous advice)

Anyway. Although it is not impossible to use a pan, I wouldn`t. Simply because the wider the pot, the more of the moisture will evaporate. So a pan (depending on the size of course) will have a greater surface in which the water will be able to evaporate from. In a 100 gram batch that will happen FAST! Then it would actually be better to have a small itty bitty pot.

Or if you don`t have a pot that is usable, melt and mix everything up really well so it is incorporated - including the lyewater - (I can`t even imagine being able to stickblend this ammount, but you may have a technique or small enough stickblender?)

Then put it in a type of baggie that can take both heat and caustic batter (most zip baggies should be sturdy enough for this. I don`t know if you have them there, but the ones we have here can be used in water or freezer and can take soapbatter).

Seal bag, add in another bag, and cook it in warm - not boiling, but barely gently simmering water - untill it starts to get that gel like consistency and you can see it starts to gently move towards opaque again. Wear oven mitts, gently rub and get it mixed well, watch how it looks like. If it separates or looks to uncooked put it back in the water and give it a tiny bit more time. Then check again.

Remove outer bag, clip a hole in the inner bag before it gets to firm (timing, timing, timing.) Better to take it a bit too soon than too late, it will still saponify and become soap even if it is a bit undone as long as you don`t have lye excess.

Mush and mix it before you snip the corner, and then squirt out in a ready container, use a spoon to level the batter, let set and rest.

Zap test after a while to check for zap ( you know about the zap test?)

Great tips thank you!!!! !

I'll look into that baggie type of cooking. Funny thing is I use those bags for my freeze dried backpacking meals. I dehydrate them in the backcountry. Pour boiling water into and wait

I have a scale that goes to 1gr. I can look for a better one.
And yes I've zap tested before, but good to be reminded with this little test.
Thanks again!

 

[JoostD]

Lye causes etching in pyrex, I'd imagine regular glass is even more prone. That's in addition to the heat issue. When I came across this challenge I was given many ideas including using a coffee cup (ceramic, not plastic!), which is genius really but I went with the crock pot. I also have a small coffee container that's a bit tall made of ceramic as well for experimenting with that might be at risk for volcano-ing. You seem to be on the same journey I was on earlier this year....don't tell me you are also trying to avoid both animal fat AND palm, LOL. Ok ok, one challenge at a time. Here's some links:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00CITCEJG/ref=ppx_yo_mob_b_track_package_o0_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1
This is my scale. I researched heavily for this scale, my goal was to to have 5 kg or so in capacity, I found out that accuracy of almost every scale with that capacity is not that great. This specific scale is battery operated (a con), however it is VERY accurate and reads fast. This is one of two scales highly recommended in the vape community (not a vaper, but their DIY spirit is amazing), this one being faster to read-which is useful for measuring. Capacity is 500 g, which is pretty decent for it's accuracy, has bright display, and does have a AC charge port (no charger tho lol).

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/micro-batches.83745/
A thread on microbatching with other interesting discussions going on. I did end up getting a "Lil Dipper" crock eventually. $4 at the thrift shop-highly recommend it. I swear I see 2-3 every time I go in now that I have mine lol.

Yes I'm trying to get a animal and palm free recipe too... I've been researching a lot in other butter like bacuri, murumuru and others.
Right now I'm thinking about trying this one

 

[ResolvableOwl]

Tiny detail: Do you really have mango oil (clear oil/liquid-ish grease), or rather the more common mango butter (solid like chocolate)? In this recipe it is a mere 1 % difference in oleic↔stearic acid, but it might be relevant (for hardness etc.) when used in higher dosages.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Yes I'm trying to get a animal and palm free recipe too... I've been researching a lot in other butter like bacuri, murumuru and others.

Don't forget the soy wax ;-)

 

[JoostD]

Don't forget the soy wax ;-)

Thanks, the trouble is can't find it here in the Netherlands. Only the soy wax for candles and it has additives then...

 

[JoostD]

Tiny detail: Do you really have mango oil (clear oil/liquid-ish grease), or rather the more common mango butter (solid like chocolate)? In this recipe it is a mere 1 % difference in oleic↔stearic acid, but it might be relevant (for hardness etc.) when used in higher dosages.

Tiny detail: Do you really have mango oil (clear oil/liquid-ish grease), or rather the more common mango butter (solid like chocolate)? In this recipe it is a mere 1 % difference in oleic↔stearic acid, but it might be relevant (for hardness etc.) when used in higher dosages.

I tinkered a bit more. I accidentally swapped mango and avocado. I wanted avocado oil and mango butter .

Any thoughts on this recipe? Do you think it will work? The fatty acids profile looks OK I think.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Thanks, the trouble is can't find it here in the Netherlands. Only the soy wax for candles and it has additives then...

@soapman5 found these:
- Eurosoy800
- NatureWax C-3
- EcoSoy C3
- PURE SOY S100

 

[JoostD]

@soapman5 found these:
- Eurosoy800
- NatureWax C-3
- EcoSoy C3
- PURE SOY S100

Thanks!
Do you know a good soy wax recipe I can try?

 

[KiwiMoose]

Thanks!
Do you know a good soy wax recipe I can try?

I'm still working on mine - I will PM you

 

[JoostD]

I'm still working on mine - I will PM you

Thanks!

 

[ResolvableOwl]

Any thoughts on this recipe?

Very subjective opinion: It's your personal decision to commit to that ingredient list, and I don't intend to discourage you – but I personally would be too lazy to do all that weighing. FWIW, the only oil that is really capable to matter in the 5% range, is castor. I know too well how marvelous all these butters are, but it makes only limited sense IMHO to throw them all into one pot.

In particular, since it isn't difficult to create a similar FA profile with a much shorter ingredient list:

One question to your stearic acid: It is unfortunate that under this name, two similar but not identical products are sold: stearic acid in the chemical sense (pure C18 fatty acid), and the “cosmetic” stearic acid, that is actually a blend of stearic (C18) and palmitic (C16) acid, that behaves similarly, but has a SAP value that is up to 9% higher. At such high usage rates, that means a superfat uncertainty of up to 4%.

Does your vendor give you any information about the stearic acid? Like plant and/or country of origin, hydrogenation, GMO status, saponification value…?

 

[soapman5]

Thanks!
Do you know a good soy wax recipe I can try?

You can buy:
- Pure Soy s100 from: Luxury Candle Supplies (from Belgium). Fast delivery. This is 100 % soy wax but the company has no SAP value.
- Eurosoy800: You have to buy from UK: Eurosoy 800 - Top Quality European Soy Wax. Have not ordered from here.
- EcoSoy C3: Soja Was - EcoSoya (C3) - vlokken voor melts - OBW022 (from Netherlands... it couldn't be better, for you).
Ordered 100 % rapeseed wax from www.online-zeepwinkel.nl (Welcome to SoapQueen Europe for english speaking customers). Fast delivery.

 

[JoostD]

Very subjective opinion: It's your personal decision to commit to that ingredient list, and I don't intend to discourage you – but I personally would be too lazy to do all that weighing. FWIW, the only oil that is really capable to matter in the 5% range, is castor. I know too well how marvelous all these butters are, but it makes only limited sense IMHO to throw them all into one pot.

In particular, since it isn't difficult to create a similar FA profile with a much shorter ingredient list:

View attachment 60746

One question to your stearic acid: It is unfortunate that under this name, two similar but not identical products are sold: stearic acid in the chemical sense (pure C18 fatty acid), and the “cosmetic” stearic acid, that is actually a blend of stearic (C18) and palmitic (C16) acid, that behaves similarly, but has a SAP value that is up to 9% higher. At such high usage rates, that means a superfat uncertainty of up to 4%.

Does your vendor give you any information about the stearic acid? Like plant and/or country of origin, hydrogenation, GMO status, saponification value…?

Sorry, I didn't noticed you're last post until now.

The SA I got is pure stearic acid. Made from rapeseed oil. Inci name stearic acid.

The reason why I chose these oils is because a very good shaving soap uses them and I want to try to get as close as possible with the butters I can get. (I.E. I can't get kokum butter here)

There list is as follows
Ingredients: Potassium Stearate, Glycerin, Potassium Cocoate, Aqua, Potassium Kokumate, Sodium Lactate, Potassium Shea Butterate, Potassium Castorate, Sodium Stearate, Potassium Cocoa Butterate, Potassium Avocadoate, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil, Theobroma Grandiflorum (Capuacu) Butter, Astrocaryum (Murumuru) Seed Butter, Platonia Insignis (Bacuri) Seed Butter, Parfum [Fragrance]

My main concern is that the recipe I have now is a bit drying to my skin. And I want to improve the post shave feel.

I'll try a simpler version first I think with less butters.

 

[user 49910]

I'll try a simpler version first I think with less butters.

The KISS principle always works best. Too many butters/oils spoil the batch, so to speak.

 

[JoostD]

The KISS principle always works best. Too many butters/oils spoil the batch, so to speak.

Yes that's very true.

I was thinking on lowering the SA from 60 to 50 and CO from 15 to 10. And add 10% mango (also has a nice SA and PA content) and add a it more shea and maybe 3% jojoba, to see if that helps the glide.

If i HP this does it makes sense to keep the SF% low like 2% and add 5% after the cook? So I have control on what butter is the SF (maybe try a bath with avocado oil as the SF)

 

[user 49910]

Yes that's very true.

I was thinking on lowering the SA from 60 to 50 and CO from 15 to 10. And add 10% mango (also has a nice SA and PA content) and add a it more shea and maybe 3% jojoba, to see if that helps the glide.

If i HP this does it makes sense to keep the SF% low like 2% and add 5% after the cook? So I have control on what butter is the SF (maybe try a bath with avocado oil as the SF)

Don't waste your money on Jojoba oil, it's actually a wax and doesn't add any conditioning really to the net soap product. It would be better to use Jojoba oil after the shave as a post-shave conditioning step. Keep your Superfat at 6% when using the dual lye modified cold/hot process. Once you get your skills down better you can try super-fatting after the hot process, but it is a finesse thing. Plus lots of arm muscle use...

Keep your coconut oil at 15% and bump your castor oil to 10%., Keep your stearic acid at no less than 50% as it is the prime wax / oil producing the slickness factor of the soap. Also you might want to consider using some kaolin clay for slickness and such. It doesn't strip the facial oils like bentonite does.
I use palm oil and palm oil -based Stearic Acid, both come from RSPO sourcing so I don't fret about the Orangutan. I tried using soy wax but did not like the quality of the end product as compared to stearic acid. Soy wax was not slick enough for what I am trying to achieve in my shaving soaps that I sell.

 

[JoostD]

Made a test batch yesterday. Just 2 pucks.
The recipe is calculated with 3% SF and I added an extra 4% of avocado oil at thick trace.

I melted the hard butters in a small 300ml hdpe jar in hot water. Then added the lye (with added aloe juice) in that jar and hand mixed in the liquid oils in stages.

I made it yesterday so the soap should harden a few weeks but i couldn't wait that long to see how it leathers already.
I'm a face latherer this was my second time ever lathering in a bowl... Probably made some mistakes but the lather looks pretty nice.

It feels more moisturizing to the skin as my previous version.

 

[Johnez]

Sorry, I didn't noticed you're last post until now.

The SA I got is pure stearic acid. Made from rapeseed oil. Inci name stearic acid.

The INCI name is no guarantee unfortunately. The stearic acid I have is a 50/50 blend of stearic acid and Palmitic Acid. It's INCI name is also stearic acid. I would encourage you to look at any data sheets attached that your source provides. It's very common, pure (~95%) SA is not easy to find.

A shave soaper's experience regarding SA:
https://www.silverfoxcrafts.com/a-new-wrinkle/
Fortunately, it really doesn't matter, SA and PA both serve the same purpose and act similarly. Most modern advise states to get a *combo* of both Stearic Acid AND Palmitic Acid up to 50. What will change is your SAP value for your stearic acid and your recipe's superfat if you have the blend. Good thing the superfat goes up.

By the way, your recipe looks amazing.

 

[ResolvableOwl]

The INCI name is no guarantee unfortunately.

Yes. But in this case, I'd say it's pretty safe to assume it is. Knowing from which oil it is derived is at least as good than knowing the P/S portions.
Of the “cheap” oils, only palm, rice bran & cottonseed oil and animal fats contain major amounts of 3palmitic acid. For everything else, it is very reasonable to calculate with pure stearic acid (93% S & 4% P for rapeseed).

 

[JoostD]

The INCI name is no guarantee unfortunately. The stearic acid I have is a 50/50 blend of stearic acid and Palmitic Acid. It's INCI name is also stearic acid. I would encourage you to look at any data sheets attached that your source provides. It's very common, pure (~95%) SA is not easy to find.

A shave soaper's experience regarding SA:
https://www.silverfoxcrafts.com/a-new-wrinkle/
Fortunately, it really doesn't matter, SA and PA both serve the same purpose and act similarly. Most modern advise states to get a *combo* of both Stearic Acid AND Palmitic Acid up to 50. What will change is your SAP value for your stearic acid and your recipe's superfat if you have the blend. Good thing the superfat goes up.

By the way, your recipe looks amazing.

I really appreciate you're comment!
I checked, the Dutch site only had a safety sheet no specs. But on that sheet it had the umbrella company soapqueen.eu and that had the English version and you're right it's its a blend with a little more SA then palm. But just a few %.
I'm going to some more reading adding about this. I want to understand this principle better. I'm always curious to the theory behind processes .

Thank again!!

I'll uodat the post in a few weeks when the soap had a time to cure.