My first soap process. trace too fast and too thick?

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aharonys

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Hi,
Hello to everyone here :)

I made today my first batch.
100% Hydrogenated coconut with 8% superfat. 38% water. (lye amount for soapcalc calculator)
I double checked all weights.
I started to mix by hand after 2 min i moved to the hand mixer. then, things went to fast. trace came fast (30 seconds to 1 min or so).
then it went harder and harder. i put it in the mold, hardly. it was like working with almost dry concrete... some of the mix that left in the container, was so hard and "glued" to the sides. it was hard to push the mix into the holes in my silicon mold.
Then, i noticed that the mix in the mold become gelly in the inner part (the surface that was exposed to the air was hard. by i could seen through)
now, 12 hours after, i cound get the soap out from the mold. they look ok. they doesnt have homogeneous look (as they had big air pocket because the mix was too solid) i cut them, and i saw nothing suspicious. i even try to do a zap test (believe me, it has hard thing to do, as too much lye is the first thing i thought about when i think what happened) so the taste was'nt so great, but no zap occur :)

the only reason i can think of, is that the temperature of the mix was too high. i will try tomorrow with lower temp.

so...

1. I would like to hear what do you think that happened.
2. what should i expect from the soap already made?
3. how i can be sure that the soap is safe for use?




second picture (forum didnt let me add second picture :/ )
http://s33.postimg.org/54i8h86jz/PICT0008.jpg

(i know it is not the best receipt to begin with, but please leave it as i like to learn in the hard way :))
 
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shunt2011

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If you post your recipe including lye and liquid in measurement we can try to help you troubleshoot. One thing that stands out is with 100% CO the super fat needs to be at least 15%. I do 20%. CO soap gets super hard and needs to be cut as soon as you can after gel and having time to cool some. Mine is generally still warm.
 

DeeAnna

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What happened? The usual for a 100% coconut oil soap. It saponifies fast and hot. Next time, use "lye concentration" not "water as % of oils" and set the concentration to 28%. And be prepared for the batter to come to trace quickly. That is the nature of coconut oil soap.
What should you expect? The soap will be very drying to the skin. Either use a more balanced blend of fats or increase the superfat to 15% to 20%.
How to know if it is safe? Your zap test already told you it is safe. http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=30690
 

aharonys

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thanks shunt201 and DeeAnna for your replies.

shunt, my reciept:

350g oil
38% water as percentage (133gr)
lye: 59gr (8% SF)


DeeAnna, how did you get to that number? (28 % concentration of lye?)
as i understand it is the same as 43.35% water for oil weight, right?

are there any other secret numbers for oils?

P.S
I Want dry soap, besides that, i read somewhere that even 5% wasnt that dry.

Thanks for the fast replys.
 

Steve85569

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Welcome to the forum and to soap making!
I too started out with a coconut only batch with "full water". What DeeAnna is suggesting is that you cut down on the amount of water in the recipe to give you a bit more time to work with the batter.

I took the liberty to make up a quick starter recipe using Soapcalc. Feel free to try it. It will make a softer and much less harsh bar of soap IMHO.

View attachment Second recipe.pdf
 

aharonys

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Hi Steve, first it is oil, not batter (Or maybe you call batter to the mix, and i misunderstand you ), from what i understand , DeeAnna told me to ADD water...

Edit: i tried to wash my hands, the soap gives a lot of bubbles :)
if it is like that, less than one day, what will i get in 4 weeks?
 
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Steve85569

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Hi Steve, first it is oil, not batter (Or maybe you call batter to the mix, and i misunderstand you ), from what i understand , DeeAnna told me to ADD water...

Edit: i tried to wash my hands, the soap gives a lot of bubbles :)
if it is like that, less than one day, what will i get in 4 weeks?
The mixture is what I call batter.
The straight coconut oil soap will make LOTS of bubbles. That recipe will develop more lather quickly. It will also remove LOTS of oil. From your clothes or skin it does not care where the oil is it's what coconut oil soap does.

If you set the lye concentration where DeeAnna recommended you will be using LESS water by a small amount. It's confusing when you start but if you stick with it you'll get better at understanding what's being said.

If you are watching the numbers in a soap calculator please note that cleansing numbers are really how much oil the particular recipe will tend to remove. Higher is drier for skin.
 

DeeAnna

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Actually I'm suggesting Aharonys use MORE water than what will be calculated with "38% water as % of oils" when creating a 100% coconut oil recipe. More water will slow down saponification and that is what is needed for a recipe high in coconut oil made by an inexperienced soap maker.

I'm also suggesting to use the lye concentration setting setting rather than "water as % of oils" setting to get better control over the water in the recipe. "Water as % of oils" is frustrating because it calculates too much water for recipes that work better with less water and vice versa for recipes that work better with more water (like this example.)

Check it out -- the actual lye concentration for a 100% coconut oil soap with "38% water as % of oils" setting is about 31% lye concentration (133 grams). That's not overly high for a recipe high in olive oil or a recipe with a balanced blend of fats, but it is too high for a beginner soaper who wants to make a 100% coconut oil soap. More water is going to work better for this specific person and this particular recipe. At 28% lye concentration, the water amount will be decidedly higher -- about 151 grams.

Aharonys -- Many soapers use "water as % of oils" and do fine most of the time. Using lye concentration instead of "water as % of oils" is knowledge that most beginning soapers do not need to know right away, but I'm sharing it because you've gotten yourself into a situation where this knowledge is going to be helpful. There are no secrets ... just layers of understanding that are based on experience and learning.

Edited to add:
"...DeeAnna, how did you get to that number? (28 % concentration of lye?)"
"...as i understand it is the same as 43.35% water for oil weight, right?..."

I suggested 28% lye concentration based on experience and my perception of your skill level. I never use "water as % of oils" so I don't know what that number is. Be aware that the conversion from the % lye concentration to "water as % of oils" will be different depending on what fats are in the recipe.
 
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aharonys

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Hi DeeAnna,
thanks for your explanation.

Steve, I understand why you were wrong, playing with the soapcalc, shows that for most receipts, less concentration means less water (i.e 100% olive oil)

DeeAnna: the 28% lye concentration is global recommendation? as for 100% olive oil i need only 33% water as % of oils.

i read a lot of articles in the last two weeks, never saw that 28%. Glad i signed up and posted my situation :)
 

DeeAnna

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"...the 28% lye concentration is global recommendation? as for 100% olive oil i need only 33% water as % of oils...."

I need to make this really clear -- if you use lye concentration, then ignore "water as % of oils". If you use "water as % of oils" then ignore lye concentration. If you keep worrying about both settings, you are going to confuse one for the other and this will get you into trouble.
 
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