My first ever M&P attempt, recipe advice needed.

[Holoi]

Hello you lovely lot.

As I'm more scientific and a bit OCD in the kitchen, I identified, a long time ago, I'd probably be better suited to soap making than food making. So yesterday I gave it a go and loved it.

However the results were not perfect and I be grateful of some advice to get my recipe on the right track.

Here's my recipe:

• 750g (26.5oz) Crystal COSMOS certified Organic Clear Melt and Pour Soap Base
• 20g (0.7oz) Shea Butter (Organic, Unrefined)
• 15ml (0.5oz) Jojoba Oil (Organic)
• 15g (0.5oz) Coconut Oil, Refined (Organic)
• 2ml Lavender Essential Oil, French (40/42 Organic)
• 1ml Vanilla Essential Oil, Organic (infusion in sunflower)
• 5ml Creamy Coconut Fragrance

It resulted in 8 bars (+ spare lump) of vaguely scented, slightly sticky, not very lathery soap.

I'm getting the vibe that I need to radically increase the percentage of all the non-base ingredients.

I'm going for a creamy, non-drying soap that has the aroma of surf wax, i.e sweet coconut/vanilla.

Any advice at all would be gratefully received and much appreciated.

Cheers, Dan

 

[Saponificarian]

No Dan, I think you need to radically decrease the percentage of all non base ingredients. I don’t do M&P but I think your additives should be tbsp per pound at most.

ETA. If you are going for creamy non- drying soap, that is what your soap base needs to be. Additives are not going to making your base milder. Now if you come over to the CP/HP side, you can formulate a creamy non drying soap all by yourself.

 

[Holoi]

Thank you very much for the response. The trouble is, the availability of Organic M&P bases is lacking, so it's really a case of me trying to "adapt" the base as best I can. Interesting that you think I should be decreasing the amount of non-base ingredients, when I read stuff online I see people talking about additional ingredients in terms of percentages and they're always much larger values than I used. So it's good to get the perspective of an expert.

I do intend to make the leap to CP, but before I do that, I want to build up stock of ingredients and equipment.

 

[SaltedFig]

Hey Dan,

Welcome aboard!

Personally, I would suggest that you try the base without any additives at all first.
Learn about the product you are trying to modify (from what I can tell, it is about 65% organic).
Then try small amounts with your additives to see/feel what happens with each one.

That is an advantage of M&P ... you can play with tiny amounts, as long as you weigh them accurately
(good scales, to at least one decimal point, are equipment worth having)



Edited to Add: Failed to mention, I'm not a M&P person either ... my original intention was to support Saponificarian's suggestion to try making CP. There are lot's of terrific M&P soapers here, so you will get more advice as they log in and see your post.

 

[Saponificarian]

Thank you very much for the response. The trouble is, the availability of Organic M&P bases is lacking, so it's really a case of me trying to "adapt" the base as best I can. Interesting that you think I should be decreasing the amount of non-base ingredients, when I read stuff online I see people talking about additional ingredients in terms of percentages and they're always much larger values than I used. So it's good to get the perspective of an expert.

I do intend to make the leap to CP, but before I do that, I want to build up stock of ingredients and equipment.

Ha! Dan, not an expert in any shape or form. I do CP and some HP but occasional MP with my daughter.

 

[BattleGnome]

Three questions to make sure you’re not overwhelming yourself:
What is your product goal? (not just the goal scent)
What recipes are you looking at? (HP, CP, M&P)
Have you tried the base on its own yet?

M&P bases are manufactured to use as is. If you haven’t yet, try a bit and see if it meets your goals. I have hard some people add sugar to m&p to increase lather but I’ve never tried it but sugar is often used in CP/HP for the same reasons. If you find the base to be too drying you can add a bit of extra oils. The most reliable recipes I’ve seen only add 1tsp-1tbsp of oil or glycerin per pound of base to combat the drying or to premix powdered colorants.

Looking at the info you’ve given us:
You aren’t happy with the base as is. There are other organic brands out there (I believe Stephenson has one). You’ll need to do research, organic isn’t a huge concern of mine so I can’t give you a direct suggestion.
Looking at you additional oils, you’ve added way more than you need. Rub a bit of each on your skin. Shea can be very heavy on its own which in my opinion would physically weigh down some of the lather. Whatever oil(s) you choose, decreasing the amount should help increase the lather.
I’m not familiar with your scent inspiration but I just want to remind you to look up useage rates. When you fall further into the rabbit hole you’ll probably come across scents with low useage rates and it’s good to be in the habit of checking.
Another note is to weigh every ingredient (even EOs). A while back a member measured out 1g of EO on two different days, one rainy and one not. There was a different number drops each day. If you are hoping for accuracy, it will make a difference

 

[IrishLass]

Welcome, Dan!

My first foray into soap-making began with M&P (until CP captivated my heart). I agree with what the others have said- i.e., to try the base alone first.......and also to decrease the amount of your oil/butter additives (that's what's killing your lather and possibly also making things feel too sticky).

With my first batches of M&P, I made the mistake of never trying them out alone. My creative mind was just too busy with thoughts about how I could 'customize' them with luxurious additions such as oils and butters (which I did), but I didn't like how the lather came out (too sparse). Eventually, I tried using the bases on their own and found to my delight that all they needed was just a little fragrance and color, nothing more.

My advise is to try out your base alone to get a good baseline for how it lathers and feels. If you find it lathers fine but is too drying, go ahead and experiment with oil/butter additions, but start out on the small side with them. Some bases can only take so much of an addition before reaching the point of diminishing returns. If it were me, I would melt down only enough base to make a single 4oz/113g bar and start by adding 1.25 mLs to 2.5 mls of only one of your oils (or the shea butter) to it. Then tweak from there based on how it feels/performs to you compared to the baseline, and once satisfied, go ahead and make a bigger batch. The cool thing with M&P is that once made, you can melt it down again and fiddle with it until you are satisfied.

I do intend to make the leap to CP, but before I do that, I want to build up stock of ingredients and equipment.

If you like to be scientific in the kitchen, then CP is the way to go!


IrishLass