Discussion in 'Liquid Soap and Cream Soap Forum' started by IrishLass, Jan 4, 2016.
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I'm finally making a variation of this soap. I am using Babassu and PKO flakes instead of coconut oil, a chocolate stout instead of water, and I do not have Teatrasodium EDTA or Sodium Lactate. I do realize my soap will be nothing like yours but it's worth a shot. I also forgot about my glycerin again. I still haven't made liquid soap with any yet though.
Would it be unsafe or otherwise undesirable to add the oils to the KOH/glycerin solution rather than adding the lye/glycerin solution to the oils? I ask because I only have one reasonable-sized stainless steel pot. If adding oils to the lye solution is not a wise idea, I suppose I could heat/melt the lye & glycerin solution in the SS pot, transfer that solution into a high heat resistant plastic container (#5?), melt my oils in the microwave within a plastic bowl, dump the melted oils into the vacated SS pot, and then add the lye solution back into the pot. However, I would prefer to avoid the extra pouring and dirty dishes if possible.
I know it is extremely dangerous to add water to lye, but there's no water in this recipe. Would the same problem occur with adding oils to lye?
CaraBou- I'm not sure if you saw my note (in red) under Step 2 on page one of this tutorial, but instead of cooking the KOH/glycerin to dissolve the KOH, I've now taken to dissolving the KOH in an equal amount of room temp water in a plastic container (dissolves in less than a minute), and then I add my full complement of glycerin to the lye solution before adding it into my warmed oils. Here's a link to my newer (and much easier) method of dissolving the KOH:
Doing it this way will, of course, mean that the dilution rate will be different, but I have that all worked out. Instead of the 41.3% dilution water as per paste weight I use when using the 'Pharamcist's Method of dissolving the KOH, I only need 31% dilution water as per paste weight when using the newer/easier method of dissolving the KOH.
The newer easier way will take care of your problem of having only 1 pot.
Hey, thanks! I did see those instructions. But, in true soaper fashion, I plunged into the pharmacist's method because it just seemed like the more tried and true method. Plus it was seemed like a right of passage . So guess what; I also dumped my oils into the lye solution. I took it all outside first, and covered as much skin as possible just in case. But I kinda figured it would probably be okay, and it was.
No flying bubbles, possibly due to poor light, old eyes, or improper technique. But we shall see what tomorrow brings - paste or not. It's okay to leave this 24 hours, til after work tomorrow, eh?
Thank you so much for posting this amazingly detailed tutorial Irish Lass! I had great fun making this 3 days ago. Unfortunately it went wrong at the end, my error and I just wondered if you could help me trouble shot?
I followed all the steps exactly, even using exactly the same amounts of ingredients (and running it through summer bee calculator, to help me learn how to use it better), until the dilution stage but didn't have a canning jar, so chose to use the crock pot instead.
I weighed the entire batch of soap paste and used the formula to work out how much water, stearic acid, sodium lactate and polysorbate 80 to add. I left out the EDTA as I didn't have any and upped the water percentage as suggested.
The crock pot was heated and the stearic acid, taffy/ liquid soap ( it was really solid) and PS 80 was added. I must admit I forgot to heat the water and sodium lactate and just added these directly. The pot was covered in cling film and lid put on to limit water escaping and then it was left an hour and a half on medium. I checked it twice, however there was still bits of solid paste. It was incredibly thick, so thick that the stick blender couldn't work. I think I must have lost a fair amount of liquid despite the precautions and had to add 200g of water to make it thin enough for the stick blender to work. I let it cool in the crock pot.
Unfortunately it didn't turn white throughout. 3 days later I still have a thick layer of white on top of the liquid soap, which is not bubbles. Underneath it's like thick amber honey. I may be wrong but have a feeling that the stearic didn't fully combine?? . If this is the case, would heating it and adding more PS 80 make it possible to combine the layers? Is it possible to save this batch? Thank you so much in advance for any help.
I would say that about 99.9% of the time it's always possible to save soap.
I've never diluted mine using a crockpot, but if I has to guess, I think you are absolutely correct- it sounds like a stearic issue. Either the stearic did not get hot enough to melt properly, or else didn't stay melted for long enough in order for it to become one with the soapy matrix is what I'm thinking.
Do you know how hot your crockpot actually gets? It's possible it doesn't get hot enough to be able to melt stearic well enough and/or keep it melted for long enough. Boiling the water and SL before adding it to the paste would definitely have helped to jumpstart things, but if your crockpot does not get hot enough to be able to maintain that temp, boiling the water beforehand would possibly have been for naught.
If it were me, this is what I would do. I would scoop off the white top and set it aside in a separate heat-safe vessel, then I would heat each portion in their separate vessels (covered) in the oven set to 200F/93C- until the amber soap is hot and the white part is (hopefully) melted. Then I would combine them together into one vessel and heat the combo (covered) some more for good measure- adding water if it looks too thirsty- and I'd heat it until it looked/felt like it could take to the stick-blender. If all went well after stick-blending, I would then pour it off into a jar or something see-through with a tight cover, and leave it for 24 hours to see what it does.
Let me know how it goes!
Hi Irish Lass
Thanks so much for your suggestions. The crockpot cooks quite hot, about 180-200F.
I had a go at fixing the soap earlier before I saw your reply. I think your method would have been easier!!!
I microwaved the soap to 80C, at which point it was very liquid and then stick blended it together. It got incredibly thick really quickly, so I heated it again and added 100g water(which had been warmed to 80C) and stick blended some more. It was incredibly liquid to start, so much so that I was worried it would be too thin, but as it cooled it became super thick. Almost like a cream soap but more plasticky and almost solid! Methinks I over stick blended or it needed more water? I heated it again and added an additional 50g of hot water but the same thing happened.
I was really nervous to continue heating and adding more water because I didn't want to keep stick blending and making it worse. I'll try and post pictures tomorrow evening after work. I left it to settle at 4pm and viewed it just now. It's still white throughout but slightly looser and darker at the bottom. It'll be interesting to see how it fares tomorrow
Will this work?
I am going to try making IL recipe from beginning of this thread but I have a few ingridiants that I don't have and can not easily get so I have a few questions:
1. I have no tetra sodium EDTA but I have citric acid. DeeAnna mentions that EDTA can be substituted by Citric acid+NaoH . Do I need to mix them with water prior to adding to soap butter? how much do I have to add in case I use the same amount of oil as IL recipe suggests?
2. I don't have sodium lactate. Is it essential and are there substitutes in case I don't get it?
3. I don't have seed oil (I don't know what it is or where to get it where I live). Do I need another oil for SF and if so what kind of oil would be a good substitute?
Thanks in advance, Eyal
I personally would not use citric acid in liquid soap, even with the extra lye needed for the citrate reaction. The reason why I say that is the citric acid can really mess up liquid soap if the balance between the acid and the NaOH is even a little off. Bar soap can tolerate a bit of imbalance, but liquid soap is very, very particular. Just try it plain -- it will still make good soap! All but the last of my liquid soap batches have not had EDTA, and they have worked out fine.
I know IL and Susie use sodium lactate when diluting their liquid soap, but I tried it only once and otherwise have not used it. I'm rather absent minded sometimes. I've had the best of intentions to use SL more, but I've simply been forgetful and have survived diluting my LS without it. So I guess what I'm trying to say is sodium lactate is nice but not essential.
Shahtura- no worries. The Tetrasodium EDTA and the sodium lactate are not absolute necessities in this recipe- you can make the soap without them- but since the type of each that I use in this recipe are in solution form and make up part of my total liquid /water amount when diluting the paste, if you choose to leave them out, you may find that you'll have to increase the percentage of your dilution water a little bit in order to compensate for their absence (in order to get the same kind of consistency that I am able to get in my finished soap).
In regards to the meadowfoam seed oil, you can certainly use a different liquid oil in its place if you wish. If you have access to almond oil or jojoba oil or avocado oil, any of those would work great.
Thanks DeeAnna and IrishLass.
I will skip the SL and EDTA for this time. I think that sweet almond oil is the most accessible for me.
I made this again today, with the easier method. I decided to make it with my almost 8 y.o. grandson who is fascinated by anything science-y. Two parts made him almost giddy with excitement... the flying bubbles and testing with phenolphthalein. He thought both were AWESOME!!!
This batch smells way better than the first couple of batches I made and it was SO easy! It took a grand total of about 18 minutes to go from liquid to gel. Now that it has cooled, it's in the fridge waiting to be diluted. That will happen early in the new year. I have to say thank you, IL, DeeAnna, and all you math and science geeks. I find it all fascinating but the math involved sometimes makes my head spin.
I'm glad this got bumped. I've been meaning to say I really like the recipe and appreciate IL for sharing it. It's great to have a handmade liquid soap at the sink for anyone to use
This weekend I made your creamy cocoa/Shea GLS - my first ever LS. And it came out wonderfully! I'm very happy you provided such a detailed tutorial. One question- this is the first time I've ever used cocoa butter and the half of the GLS that I left unscented has a very slight cocoa butter smell. Is that to be expected?
Not IrishLass, but yes, it is normal. Especially if you have a sensitive nose like me.
Awesome tutorial IL. Thank you. I have tried the first recipe. Diluted last night. Will post pictures tomorrow. I think It was a success. Will try your 2nd recipe next. I love the creamy look of the finished soap - like an exotic smoothie. Thanks everyone. I love this forum.
You're very welcome, Smengot0. Looking forward to the pics!
Hello house! See my attempt at GLS. What do you think IrishLass? Hope you all approve. Hope you get to see the pics. Uploading is difficult. My photography skills are zero...
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