More hot process questions

[SomethingGoodAustin]

Hello;

After about a year of making cold process soaps, I decided to start experimenting with hot process using a crock pot. I've made four batches so far, using different recipes. Whether I've made a shampoo bar with jojoba and high castor or a more typical coconut/palm/olive oil bar, I've noticed the same thing: my soaps have all turned out very soft initially (some have hardened up over the last week, but others, like the shampoo bars, are still rather squishy). Because they are so soft, I've been leaving them in the mold overnight. What I've noticed there is that even though they all pass the zap test, they stay hot well into the next day.

This seems odd to me. The heat would seem to indicate that a chemical process is still ongoing, but if so, what is it? I haven't noticed anything that would obviously be the result of incomplete saponification. Also, I thought the point of HP was to speed up production time. My reading gave me the impression that most bars would be firm and nearly completely ready to go. But my most recent soap, a hunter's soap (coco-palm-olive-neem) came out of the mold downright squishy.

So what could be happening? Should I cook my soap longer or at a higher temp?

 

[lsg]

Maybe you are adding too much liquid. I always do a zap test before taking my HP out of the crockpot. Take a little of the cooked soap out and let it cool and touch it to the end of your tongue. If it zaps, it needs to cook longer.

 

[SomethingGoodAustin]

Initially (first two batches) I used a water discount of 28%, same as I do with my CP soaps. 28% resulted in the top of the soap drying out and crusting while in the crockpot. So I started using the full 38%, as per soapcalc.

Any idea why the soap would stay hot, even though I did several zap tongue tests?

 

[FOhoarder]

How long is your cooking time? Is your crock pot new or old? My old ones tend not to get very hot so I have to cook on high.

 

[honor435]

hmm, my hp is usually really hard and ready to cut the next day, i use a log mold and only cover with a light contact paper, not my usual wood cover for cp. I use a po,co,oo, castor(10%), shea 10(%), thats weird, are you covering it? what kind of mold? the high castor could be slower in getting hard, I dont know what neem is.

 

[DragonQueenHHP]

My shampoo bar stays soft, the others get nice and hard
I wonder if it is the jojoba the shampoo bar is the only one I use it in

 

[SomethingGoodAustin]

DragonQueen, I'm guessing that the jojoba in my shampoo bar, in combination with the high castor, is keeping it soft too.

Honor435, Neem is another carrier oil that's reputed to have antibacterial properties. It's fairly conditioning, according to its fatty acid numbers/profile on soapcalc, but is partially solid at room temp. I'd expect it to add to the hardness of the bar, or at least not take away from it.

FOhoarder, my crock pot is oooold--about, um, 7 years. It does get hot, though. The soap temp goes as high as 150 degrees Fahrenheit (I've been watching the temp to make sure I add my EO's below flashpoint). My hunter's soap was a more standard formula:
Coconut 5.1 oz
Palm 3.5 oz
Castor 1.5 oz
Olive Oil 8.3 oz
Neem 1.6 oz

It seemed to pass several zap tests (I even compared to an actual 9-volt battery, ), but still stayed hot in the mold and is still very soft even after unmolding and slicing and letting it sit for two-three days.

It may not be a terribly big deal, I suppose. It's just... weird.

 

[DragonQueenHHP]

maybe try adding some beeswax to it?

I love neem oil I use it in my liquid pet wash and in a campers liquid soap I make, it detracts bugs and is great conditioner makes my pets shine so nice and helps my one with skin problems alot

 

[SomethingGoodAustin]

DragonQueen, what percentage of neem do you typically use? I used 8 percent in the hunter's soap and was looking at maybe 5 in a dog shampoo bar.

 

[DragonQueenHHP]

I did 10% on the pet shampoo

 

[ilove2soap]

Totally agree about adding beeswax. Made a world of difference in the hardness of my hp soaps.

 

[FOhoarder]

Totally agree about adding beeswax. Made a world of difference in the hardness of my hp soaps.

What percentage do you use for a batch? I'd love to give it a try next time I HP.

 

[DragonQueenHHP]

depending on the oils I am using I go anywhere for 1% to 3% sorry for the rough range most often I do about 1.5%

 

[FOhoarder]

Np! I'll give that a whirl next time. Thanks!

 

[SomethingGoodAustin]

Well, I'm still puzzled as to what is going wrong. My impression of HP was that HP produced a harder bar more quickly, which sounded great for my production needs. But maybe that impression was incorrect.

I appreciate the suggestion of adding beeswax. But if I have to alter my formula to make HP "work," then clearly, HP doesn't work for my needs and I should just go back to CP. Seems like the same result either way.

 

[Lindy]

Something else to try is Sodium Lactate. It will do 2 things, keep your soap really smooth in the pour and will help to harden it. Personally I use it to keep the flow of my soap.

 

[DragonQueenHHP]

I make HP for the instant gratification I only cure mine about a week, and the little scraping ball we use right away

 

[SomethingGoodAustin]

I'd rather not add sodium lactate at this point--I'm trying to keep my product as simple as possible, and none of my potential competitors use it as far as I know.

 

[AndreaMakesSoap]

How about silk? It's a very natural product that adds hardness (in my experience) to my CP bars. I haven't tried HP, so not sure there!

 

[SomethingGoodAustin]

Has anyone ever noted how hot their soap gets in the crockpot? I know most people don't bother checking the temperature of a crockpot in general, but possibly to be sure they're adding essential oils below flashpoint?

I suspect that my crock pot just isn't getting hot enough, and so perhaps I'm just not cooking the soap long enough... maybe?

I get adding beeswax or silk for hardness, or SL for a better pour, but I could do that as easily with CP soap--and then still have to wait for the excess water to evaporate.