“Moisturizing” Soap?

Discussion in 'Lye-Based Soap Forum' started by MuchaMothLady, Mar 20, 2019.

Help Support Soapmaking Forum by donating:

  1. Mar 20, 2019 #1

    MuchaMothLady

    MuchaMothLady

    MuchaMothLady

    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2019
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Im newer at soap making but have made a fair amount of batches of soap over the last few months, using different recipes from some books I have. I’m starting to notice some differences in the batches now that some are cured. Much of the soap seems to really wash away the oils from my hands and makes me want to put lotion on quickly. I know that’s basically what soap does, but does anyone have thoughts on making a soap less drying? Does cure time affect this? Superfatting differently? Anyone know of any mild recipes?

    I know it’s a kind of vague question with potentially a lot of different answers. But was wondering if anyone had any thoughts or opinion on the topic. I’ve used recipes from soapqueen and Jan berry.
     
  2. Mar 20, 2019 #2

    Dawni

    Dawni

    Dawni

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2018
    Messages:
    1,532
    Likes Received:
    1,840
    Location:
    Philippines
    Most of us newbies have been experimenting with lowering the amount of coconut oil in soap, in the hopes of getting a blend that doesn't feel drying after washing.

    I started at 25% then have been gradually decreasing and am now at 18%. I don't use my soap before at least a 2 month cure so I haven't tested the last batches.

    But most advice was to decrease coconut. Or palm kernel oil, or babasu if it's dryness we're trying to get away from.

    Yes, cure definitely affects mildness. Hide one of your drying soaps and try it again after a longer cure and you'll see the difference.

    I can't say about superfatting differently because I learned that in CP the lye doesn't discriminate and we can't know for sure which oils are left unsaponified. I HP, but even then I believe that while there's a greater chance your choice of oil is what's left, whatever chemical reaction gets done in curing may change that to some degree.

    Mild soaps are usually the high oleic ones, and the ones high in animal fats. A Castille is very mild, and so is a high lard bar. Either way, the mild soaps are the ones with less lauric and myristic percentages.

    So if it were me I'd go for a higher conditioning number and a lower cleansing number in the soap calculator.
     
  3. Mar 20, 2019 #3

    BattleGnome

    BattleGnome

    BattleGnome

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2016
    Messages:
    1,311
    Likes Received:
    985
    A big help would be to see your recipe. If we see something immediately we can mention it (like the high coconut) and we won’t suggest you try things you’ve already done. A second question would be to ask how long your cure was. 4 weeks is the generally accepted minimum but there is a big difference between a 4 week cure and a 4 month cure. Certain recipes need a longer cure - a Castile is commonly cured a full year before use. The last thought would be user error, accidents happen. Did you over/under measure an ingredient? Did you swap out an ingredient without running it through a calculator? This last one may depend on your note taking but it can make a difference if you know what your looking for.

    The coconut suggestion will probably be your best place to start but I can’t say for sure without a recipe
     
    DeeAnna likes this.
  4. Mar 20, 2019 #4

    artemis

    artemis

    artemis

    Mostly Harmless

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,469
    Likes Received:
    2,033
    Location:
    Sol system, Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
    Also, try searching the forum for "conditioning" or "moisturizing." This question comes up quite often.
     
  5. Mar 20, 2019 #5

    shunt2011

    shunt2011

    shunt2011

    Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    12,470
    Likes Received:
    7,000
    Location:
    Michigan
    Another recommendation is to be sure you are running the recipes regardless of where they come from through a soap calculator to be sure the measurements are correct. Then look at the qualities of the soap, the most important one to me is the cleansing number. The higher the number the more stripping of oils off your skin it will be. Also, if you post your recipes we can help troubleshoot that as well.
     
  6. Mar 20, 2019 #6

    Clarice

    Clarice

    Clarice

    We are one... Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2019
    Messages:
    911
    Likes Received:
    557
    Location:
    HotLanta - OTP
    Running recipes through a soap calculator is helpful.

    The issue I would have had, a couple months ago is just how to do it in the Soapmakingfriend, for example, as I would have had no idea how / where to input the quantities in a recipe for water and NaOH to enable a check.

    I have mentioned this to the developers. If you agree that a way to do this would be helpful —— or if you can suggest a way to check recipes that gets around this that would be great. Thanks!
     
  7. Mar 21, 2019 #7

    artemis

    artemis

    artemis

    Mostly Harmless

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,469
    Likes Received:
    2,033
    Location:
    Sol system, Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
    You check the water and NaOH in a recipe by inputting the percentages of oils and comparing the resulting water and NaOH amounts with the ones the recipe shows. If they are different, go with the amounts the calculator gives. The user inputs the oils and the calculator gives the water and NaOH amounts.
     
  8. Mar 24, 2019 #8

    earlene

    earlene

    earlene

    Grandmother & Soaper Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2016
    Messages:
    5,341
    Likes Received:
    4,756
    Location:
    Western Illinois, USA
    Another way to use the lye calculator to evaluate a recipe in addition to what artemis mentions, is to manipulate the SF value and the lye concentration values. By doing this you can determine what the SF and lye concentration may have been for the original recipe. It can take awhile with an unusual recipe, but learning how to do this can really help if you ever have to figure out what SF or lye concentration you actually used in your own recipe when you discover an error that you have actually noted in your documentation.
     
    Meena likes this.
  9. Mar 31, 2019 #9

    Donee'

    Donee'

    Donee'

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2019
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    133
    Location:
    Johannesburg South Africa
    Its the coconut oil that makes it drying.
    Listen to Dawni.
     
  10. Mar 31, 2019 #10

    Pat McGlothlin

    Pat McGlothlin

    Pat McGlothlin

    Colorado Gal in Arizona Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    Surprise, Az
    When I started soaping, we didn't have forums like this to help.

    I always thought that I could control the SF factor by adding the oil I wanted for SF just before pouring. My idea was that most of the saponification had already happened and the last few ounces would be the emollient.

    Thoughts? Corrections?
     
  11. Mar 31, 2019 #11

    earlene

    earlene

    earlene

    Grandmother & Soaper Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2016
    Messages:
    5,341
    Likes Received:
    4,756
    Location:
    Western Illinois, USA

    This might be a separate thread topic, as it is not really about soap being or not being moisturizing. Do you know how to start a new thread? If not, here are instructions how to start a thread: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/how-to-post-a-thread.73754/

    It would be useful for the discussion to clarify if you do only HP soaping, or if you also do CP.
     
  12. Mar 31, 2019 #12

    Lin19687

    Lin19687

    Lin19687

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    Messages:
    2,927
    Likes Received:
    1,584
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    @Pat McGlothlin Plz start a new thread since you are asking a different question
     
  13. Mar 31, 2019 #13

    Pat McGlothlin

    Pat McGlothlin

    Pat McGlothlin

    Colorado Gal in Arizona Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    Surprise, Az
    I was asking about moisturizing. Isn't that what SF is, adding extra oils to SF or moisturize and when to add the SF oil to get the most out of it?
     
  14. Mar 31, 2019 #14

    DeeAnna

    DeeAnna

    DeeAnna

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    10,659
    Likes Received:
    14,060
    Location:
    Northeast Iowa, USA
    Without knowing the recipe, there's no way to know why the OPs soap is drying to the skin.

    It could be a high % of coconut. That's often the case with many recipes.

    But "too much coconut" is not the only reason why a soap is drying to the skin. Some people are sensitive to a large % of olive oil, even with no coconut (castile type soap, for example), so that advice isn't always valid.

    Other issues could be, as others are pointing out, a lye heavy soap or the use of additives that can be drying to the skin (clay, for example). Or using the soap before it's sufficiently cured.

    Loading the soap up with more and more superfat is not necessarily a good way to make a given soap recipe less drying to the skin. A higher superfat can be a useful tactic to tame a soap high in the "stripping" fatty acids -- pure coconut oil soap for example. But a high superfat doesn't necessarily do much for a more balanced soap recipe besides make the soap softer and reduce the lather.

    It all comes back to knowing the recipe. Until we know what's in the soap, we're just guessing.
     
  15. Mar 31, 2019 #15

    artemis

    artemis

    artemis

    Mostly Harmless

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,469
    Likes Received:
    2,033
    Location:
    Sol system, Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
    No. This has more to do with which oils do what in soap to produce a less drying product. If you are curious about how your superfat affects your soap, then a new post will probably get you more information than you might get here.
     
  16. Apr 1, 2019 #16

    Amy78130

    Amy78130

    Amy78130

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2018
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    109
    Location:
    78130
    Solid advice!
     
    Dawni likes this.
  17. Apr 1, 2019 #17

    DeeAnna

    DeeAnna

    DeeAnna

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    10,659
    Likes Received:
    14,060
    Location:
    Northeast Iowa, USA
    If you watch the interplay between "cleansing" and "conditioning" you'll see as cleansing goes up, conditioning goes down. So you really only need to worry about one number. I only pay attention to the "cleansing" number (lauric + myristic acids). IMO, the conditioning number isn't nearly as useful as many people think.

    For example, fats such as lard, tallow and palm are high in stearic and palmitic acids, and these fatty acids contribute to mildness (aka conditioning) in soap. These fatty acids aren't included in the "conditioning" number, however, so their contribution to mildness is often not recognized.

    As another example, ricinoleic acid from castor oil is included in the conditioning number as well as the creamy and bubbly numbers. Sometimes newer soapers pack a recipe full of castor in the hopes of getting a super lathery and super mild soap ... and then wonder why castor doesn't produce that super soap they hope for. It's a puzzle to me why ricinoleic acid is given such importance in "the numbers."
     

Share This Page