zolveria
Well-Known Member
some one said to me if the fragrance cause acceleration or ricing . add it to the Lye water.
Mixing Fragrance Oils with lye water has anyone done this?
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SoapAddict415
Well-Known Member
I've never heard of that. Is it supposed to stop the ricing/acceleration?
That sounds scary. If I tried that I would want to have a hazmat suit handy!
SoapAddict415
Well-Known Member
I would think that the lye would saponify the fragrance oil. If anyone has tried it, I'd like to know the results.
Lin19687
Well-Known Member
I have read about this on here or the Dish before but can't remember which .
I want to say they did it because the FO Accelerated things ?
I am pretty sure someone on here does it, said it was easier to remember adding it all in before the Lye .
I want to say they did it because the FO Accelerated things ?
I am pretty sure someone on here does it, said it was easier to remember adding it all in before the Lye .
Like Lin, I seem to recall somebody on one of the forums doing this, too, but can't remember which forum.
I've added several different things to my lye water over the years, but never FO. I really like adding honey to my lye water because it takes all the orneriness right out of it (causes it to behave like a dream in my soap- no overheating, separation, leaking honey, etc...). I wonder if it would do the same kind of thing with FO? That would be cool if it did.
Does the person who gave you the advice add their accelerating FOs to lye water? I'd be curious to hear of his or her results.
No worries there- fragrance oils aren't true oils (triglycerides), so they won't saponify.
IrishLass
I've added several different things to my lye water over the years, but never FO. I really like adding honey to my lye water because it takes all the orneriness right out of it (causes it to behave like a dream in my soap- no overheating, separation, leaking honey, etc...). I wonder if it would do the same kind of thing with FO? That would be cool if it did.
Does the person who gave you the advice add their accelerating FOs to lye water? I'd be curious to hear of his or her results.
No worries there- fragrance oils aren't true oils (triglycerides), so they won't saponify.
IrishLass
Adding FO to a small amount of lye even in a gram bottle will give you a good idea if the fo will accelerate. It only takes a few drops in the little bit of lye, shake it and see what it does. This would be the only reason I would add fo to lye. If it is an accelerator it will clump up almost immediately
zolveria
Well-Known Member
this lady in the face book supplies store said her mom has done it for years.. and she in her late 60's so im assuming it worked for her.. im gonna try with a small batch
Kamahido
Paladin of Soap
Do let us know how it turns out.
I would still suggest adding a little fo to some lye solution and see what happens and it would be best to try it with a known accelerating fo. You may end up wasting a sizeable amount of fo if it gets ugly in the lye. I test a lot of new fo's this way and I get an excellent how the fo is going to act. I for one do not like wasting a few ounces of fo
I will tell you something interesting but I am not positive yet of the results. But while I was practicing for the mica swirl challenge, my mica and oil mixture was getting a little thin and I didnt want to add more oil so I added some FO that I used in the batch. That soap, while it is still curing now smells super strong around the area where the mica was. I'll see what happens and report back.
MonteValePocinho
New Member
I would think the lye/water solution would be so hot that the fragrance/essential oils would burn off leaving no scent... That is why I wait for the lye/water solution to cool down from about 160F to 100/110 F and the oils solutions to heat up to 100-110 F so the scent isn't destroyed
OldHippie
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What makes you think so? What carrier oils do NOT saponify?
dixiedragon
Well-Known Member
A fragrance oil isn't a carrier oil. That's why it won't saponify. Carrier oils are fats. Fragrance oils and essential oils are not.
I am wondering if the lady misspoke and meant to say she adds her FO to the oils? I do that a lot, add the FO to the oils and add the lye water.
It's as Dixie said- fragrance oils are not carrier oils/fats, that's why they won't saponify.
IrishLass
OldHippie
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"The number of people who believe something is not an accurate indicator of it's validity."
I'm not a chemist, but I can read...
"Fragrance oil(s), also known as aroma oils, aromatic oils, and flavor oils, are blended synthetic aroma compounds or natural essential oils that are diluted with a carrier like propylene glycol, vegetable oil, or mineral oil." - Wikipedia®
The Material Safety Data Sheet for Fragrance Oil
"This material is a proprietary mixture of aroma chemicals, essential oils and natural extracts which are considered by the manufacturer to be trade secrets and are withheld with the provision of section 1910.1200 of Title 29 of the Code of Federal Regulation."
http://www.essentialdepot.com/msds/Fragrance-Oil/Fragrance-Oil-MSDS.pdf
"Fragranced consumer products: Chemicals emitted, ingredients unlisted"
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0195925510001125
If you don't know what is in Fragrance Oil, you cannot assume there are no saponifiables.
I also ran in to the following which I thought was note-worthy:
In 2005–06, fragrance mix was the third-most-prevalent allergen in patch tests (11.5%).[6] 'Fragrance' was voted Allergen of the Year in 2007 by the American Contact Dermatitis Society. A recent academic study in the United States has shown that "34.7 % of the population reported health problems, such as migraine headaches and respiratory difficulties, when exposed to fragranced products". - Wikipedia®
Fragrances are regulated in the United States by the Toxic Substances Control Act of 1976 that "grandfathered" existing chemicals without further review or testing and put the burden of proof that a new substance is not safe on the EPA. The EPA, however, does not conduct independent safety testing but relies on data provided by the manufacturer. - Wikipedia®
I'm not a chemist, but I can read...
"Fragrance oil(s), also known as aroma oils, aromatic oils, and flavor oils, are blended synthetic aroma compounds or natural essential oils that are diluted with a carrier like propylene glycol, vegetable oil, or mineral oil." - Wikipedia®
The Material Safety Data Sheet for Fragrance Oil
"This material is a proprietary mixture of aroma chemicals, essential oils and natural extracts which are considered by the manufacturer to be trade secrets and are withheld with the provision of section 1910.1200 of Title 29 of the Code of Federal Regulation."
http://www.essentialdepot.com/msds/Fragrance-Oil/Fragrance-Oil-MSDS.pdf
"Fragranced consumer products: Chemicals emitted, ingredients unlisted"
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0195925510001125
If you don't know what is in Fragrance Oil, you cannot assume there are no saponifiables.
I also ran in to the following which I thought was note-worthy:
In 2005–06, fragrance mix was the third-most-prevalent allergen in patch tests (11.5%).[6] 'Fragrance' was voted Allergen of the Year in 2007 by the American Contact Dermatitis Society. A recent academic study in the United States has shown that "34.7 % of the population reported health problems, such as migraine headaches and respiratory difficulties, when exposed to fragranced products". - Wikipedia®
Fragrances are regulated in the United States by the Toxic Substances Control Act of 1976 that "grandfathered" existing chemicals without further review or testing and put the burden of proof that a new substance is not safe on the EPA. The EPA, however, does not conduct independent safety testing but relies on data provided by the manufacturer. - Wikipedia®
dixiedragon
Well-Known Member
"Fragrance oil(s), also known as aroma oils, aromatic oils, and flavor oils, are blended synthetic aroma compounds or natural essential oils that are diluted with a carrier like propylene glycol, vegetable oil, or mineral oil." - Wikipedia®
Only the vegetable oil is a fat. But if you don't believe us, then ask your fragrance oil vendor.
Only the vegetable oil is a fat. But if you don't believe us, then ask your fragrance oil vendor.
OldHippie
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Yeah, and vegetable oil saponifies.
I did, that's where the The Material Safety Data Sheet for Fragrance Oil came from.
You can ignore the facts and believe anything that you want.
I would trust the actual MSDS over the info in the Wiki article, because the MSDS actually pertains to the specific type of fragrance oils we use in our soap, which are undiluted. The Wiki definition that you copied/pasted seems to be a 'catch-all' definition that includes diluted fragrance oils. The MSDS that you cited from Essential Depot does not list vegetable oil as being a constituent.
IrishLass
So your point is some fragrance oils might contain vegetable oils, and veg oils do saponify. Fair enough.
That said, a generic MSDS and a generic Wikipedia article don't apply specifically and accurately to each and every fragrance oil. Of all the (non ED) MSDS's for fragrance oils that I have on hand, for example, not one lists veg oil as an ingredient.
"...You can ignore the facts and believe anything that you want...."
So what facts are you talking about? And why are you taking this tone?
That said, a generic MSDS and a generic Wikipedia article don't apply specifically and accurately to each and every fragrance oil. Of all the (non ED) MSDS's for fragrance oils that I have on hand, for example, not one lists veg oil as an ingredient.
"...You can ignore the facts and believe anything that you want...."
So what facts are you talking about? And why are you taking this tone?
