Misbehavin' soap batch

[Feelin' Soapy]

Just finished a batch and all went well until I added the FO, and it seized the moment I poured it in. I used Crafter's Choice Cool Cucumber. WSP says no acceleration, but there were at least 1 or 2 reviewers who said it accelerates (there may be more, but I didn't read all 123 reviews). I don't know if the FO is totally at fault or something else in my recipe. With so many variables, sometimes it's hard to tell where the problem lies.

I've also been trying to adjust the water in my recipes because I live in Oregon and we've had rain after rain after rain, and my soaps are taking much longer to unmold and cure than they did in the summer months. I was using the default lye concentration of 33.33%, but have tried upping it to 35%, and then in today's batch to 37%. (Any other suggestions to help deal with cold, humid weather much appreciated.)

Here's the rest of my recipe:
OO 35%
Palm oil 34%
CO 15%
Avocado oil 10%
Castor oil 6%
Sodium lactate 1 tsp PPO

I also added goat milk powder. I used 7 oz of water in my lye (4.65 oz) solution. I mixed the GMP with the other .92 oz water, and mixed it into my oils. Batter was fluid and perfect until the FO hit, then bam! It glopped right where it hit. I used the SB to mix it enough to plop in my mold, but I don't think my swirls are going to look very swirly when I cut tomorrow!

Thank you for any insights you can offer!

 

[GemstonePony]

Just finished a batch and all went well until I added the FO, and it seized the moment I poured it in. I used Crafter's Choice Cool Cucumber. WSP says no acceleration, but there were at least 1 or 2 reviewers who said it accelerates (there may be more, but I didn't read all 123 reviews). I don't know if the FO is totally at fault or something else in my recipe. With so many variables, sometimes it's hard to tell where the problem lies.

I've also been trying to adjust the water in my recipes because I live in Oregon and we've had rain after rain after rain, and my soaps are taking much longer to unmold and cure than they did in the summer months. I was using the default lye concentration of 33.33%, but have tried upping it to 35%, and then in today's batch to 37%. (Any other suggestions to help deal with cold, humid weather much appreciated.)

Here's the rest of my recipe:
OO 35%
Palm oil 34%
CO 15%
Avocado oil 10%
Castor oil 6%
Sodium lactate 1 tsp PPO

I also added goat milk powder. I used 7 oz of water in my lye (4.65 oz) solution. I mixed the GMP with the other .92 oz water, and mixed it into my oils. Batter was fluid and perfect until the FO hit, then bam! It glopped right where it hit. I used the SB to mix it enough to plop in my mold, but I don't think my swirls are going to look very swirly when I cut tomorrow!

Thank you for any insights you can offer!

I would have whisked it in, not stick-blended, unless there was ricing, to preserve what's left of your fluidity. And I'm pretty sure different FO notes can react slightly differently to different ingredients, since some of my fragrances practically seize my high butters but are blase about my high-palm, and some are vice-versa. Also, call me weird, but I always read all of the reviews before buying or using the FO. If it might accelerate, I treat it like it will, and if it might rice then I won't touch it.

 

[cmzaha]

I guess I really do not know what your question is, but I think you already know the FO is the culprit. It might not have accelerated as quickly if you had upped your water versus cutting your water. It seems to me you are asking two questions.

One about curing and one about slowing trace, but I am just not sure. If you have a problem fo and many Cucumber fo's like Florals tend to accelerate will work better with more water not less also try mixing your fo into your batch oils before adding in your lye solution. I know many seem to have success with doing such and cut your castor down to 3 or 4%. From testing I have done castor can make quite a difference in tracing.

Also palm traces quickly and 35% is a fairly high percentage, Castor also accelerates trace, but your OO will help slow it down. I really do not know why you would up your lye concentration to 37% but that is your choice, although I know there are a few believers here that feel higher lye concentration slows trace. Well, I have tested that theory more than once and found total failure at least in my high palm and high tallow/lard recipes. It does work with high percentage or 100% OO soap. As for curing find the dryest area in your house and aim a fan on your racks or use a dehumidifier.

 

[Feelin' Soapy]

I would have whisked it in, not stick-blended, unless there was ricing, to preserve what's left of your fluidity. And I'm pretty sure different FO notes can react slightly differently to different ingredients, since some of my fragrances practically seize my high butters but are blase about my high-palm, and some are vice-versa. Also, call me weird, but I always read all of the reviews before buying or using the FO. If it might accelerate, I treat it like it will, and if it might rice then I won't touch it.

Thank you for your input. I planned to stir in the FO with my spatula but it glopped into a mass the moment it hit the batter. I used the SB at that point because it was the only way to mix it enough to be usable.

I also put a lot of value on reviews and of the 50 or so that I read, most were very favorable and about 2 mentioned accelerating. I planned a simple design with that possibility in mind, but never expected total seizing.

 

[Feelin' Soapy]

I guess I really do not know what your question is, but I think you already know the FO is the culprit. It might not have accelerated as quickly if you had upped your water versus cutting your water. It seems to me you are asking two questions.

One about curing and one about slowing trace, but I am just not sure. If you have a problem fo and many Cucumber fo's like Florals tend to accelerate will work better with more water not less also try mixing your fo into your batch oils before adding in your lye solution. I know many seem to have success with doing such and cut your castor down to 3 or 4%. From testing I have done castor can make quite a difference in tracing.

Also palm traces quickly and 35% is a fairly high percentage, Castor also accelerates trace, but your OO will help slow it down. I really do not know why you would up your lye concentration to 37% but that is your choice, although I know there are a few believers here that feel higher lye concentration slows trace. Well, I have tested that theory more than once and found total failure at least in my high palm and high tallow/lard recipes. It does work with high percentage or 100% OO soap. As for curing find the dryest area in your house and aim a fan on your racks or use a dehumidifier.

Yes, I did have several questions mixed into all that! Thanks for teasing them apart and responding. I knew the FO might accelerate, just didn't expect seizing entirely. I was unclear about the effects of my trying to adjust my water for the high humidity we have here in the winter. I was also not sure if the GMP and my method of adding it might have speeded things up as well.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I’m one who typically uses a lye concentration of 35-37% because I get little to no ash and it works fine with my recipes and most of the FOs and EOs I use. However, if I’m using a palm recipe (20-25% PO plus some shea) and think there’s any chance the FO or EO will accelerate, I lower my lye concentration to 33% and hand stir the FO into the batter at emulsion. I tried recipes with 35-40% palm and gave up on them because they were too fast for me .

 

[Feelin' Soapy]

This is very helpful learning that palm oil accelerates. I've been alternating between lard and palm based recipes. I knew lard helped slow things down, but didn't know that palm speeded things up. Before I started using palm, I had difficulty getting a balanced bar using vegan oils, especially since my skin doesn't like coconut oil over about 15-20%.

 

[cerelife]

I've used WSP Cool Cucumber in the past so I looked up those batches in my soap notes. Yep it accelerated in even my slowest moving lard recipe, and that's with no water discount. According to my notes, I used this FO twice before deciding I didn't like the scent enough to fool with it anymore.

 

[Feelin' Soapy]

Thank you, @cerelife . I know we all use different recipes and therefore should expect somewhat different results, but it still surprises me when a manufacturer and most of the reviews say no acceleration, yet my (and your) results are so different. I certainly won't be using this one again.

 

[Feelin' Soapy]

So I cut the soap this morning and the swirl wasn't as bad as I'd expected, but I was surprised to see several little brown spots here and there. What do you suppose these are from? Specks of the goat milk powder that got hot? Something else?
Soapmaking is often full of surprises -- some good, some not so good! Never dull (haha)!

 

[GemstonePony]

So I cut the soap this morning and the swirl wasn't as bad as I'd expected, but I was surprised to see numerous little brown spots here and there. Could these be specks of the goat milk powder that got hot? Something else?
Soapmaking is often full of surprises -- some good, some not so good! Never dull (haha)!
View attachment 53167

Did you add it as described in this post? You have to click the link to see the post I'm referring to, the first I've in this thread isn't it.
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/pre-mixing-goat-milk-powder.80622/post-847660

 

[Feelin' Soapy]

@GemstonePony I added the goat milk powder like I described in the first post here: I divided the water, using most of it (7 oz) to dissolve the lye. Then I used a stick blender to disperse the GMP in .92 oz water and then SB'ed it into my oils before adding the lye water.

 

[cmzaha]

This is very helpful learning that palm oil accelerates. I've been alternating between lard and palm based recipes. I knew lard helped slow things down, but didn't know that palm speeded things up. Before I started using palm, I had difficulty getting a balanced bar using vegan oils, especially since my skin doesn't like coconut oil over about 15-20%.

Vegan recipes are trickier I agree. My vegan recipe is 40% palm with 9% shea, needless to say, it is a fast mover. I use a 31% Lye concentration to help slow it down with 4% Castor oil. If you use OO, which I do not, it will also help slow it down.

 

[GemstonePony]

@GemstonePony I added the goat milk powder like I described in the first post here: I divided the water, using most of it (7 oz) to dissolve the lye. Then I used a stick blender to disperse the GMP in .92 oz water and then SB'ed it into my oils before adding the lye water.

How much time did the GMP have to absorb liquid before the lye was poured in? And was it blended at intervals to break up clumps as it was reconstituting?

 

[linne1gi]

Just finished a batch and all went well until I added the FO, and it seized the moment I poured it in. I used Crafter's Choice Cool Cucumber. WSP says no acceleration, but there were at least 1 or 2 reviewers who said it accelerates (there may be more, but I didn't read all 123 reviews). I don't know if the FO is totally at fault or something else in my recipe. With so many variables, sometimes it's hard to tell where the problem lies.

I've also been trying to adjust the water in my recipes because I live in Oregon and we've had rain after rain after rain, and my soaps are taking much longer to unmold and cure than they did in the summer months. I was using the default lye concentration of 33.33%, but have tried upping it to 35%, and then in today's batch to 37%. (Any other suggestions to help deal with cold, humid weather much appreciated.)

Here's the rest of my recipe:
OO 35%
Palm oil 34%
CO 15%
Avocado oil 10%
Castor oil 6%
Sodium lactate 1 tsp PPO

I also added goat milk powder. I used 7 oz of water in my lye (4.65 oz) solution. I mixed the GMP with the other .92 oz water, and mixed it into my oils. Batter was fluid and perfect until the FO hit, then bam! It glopped right where it hit. I used the SB to mix it enough to plop in my mold, but I don't think my swirls are going to look very swirly when I cut tomorrow!

Thank you for any insights you can offer!

If you want a non accelerating, non ricing, non seizing Cucumber Melon fragrance oil, try Nurture Soap. No problems at all and I have used it many many times with all sorts of recipes. Also, I live in South Florida, the home of heat and humidity - and I usually keep my lye solution at 33% or 2:1 ratio water to lye. The only time I change that out is if I have a really high amount of Olive Oil or other liquid oils and then I usually go for a 40% lye solution. or 1.5:1 water to lye ratio.

 

[Feelin' Soapy]

How much time did the GMP have to absorb liquid before the lye was poured in? And was it blended at intervals to break up clumps as it was reconstituting?

Probably about 20 minutes from dispersing it in water until adding to oils and then adding the lye water. I added the dispersed GMP to the oils all at once and stick blended it again before adding the lye.

 

[Feelin' Soapy]

If you want a non accelerating, non ricing, non seizing Cucumber Melon fragrance oil, try Nurture Soap. No problems at all and I have used it many many times with all sorts of recipes.
Also, I live in South Florida, the home of heat and humidity - and I usually keep my lye solution at 33% or 2:1 ratio water to lye. The only time I change that out is if I have a really high amount of Olive Oil or other liquid oils and then I usually go for a 40% lye solution. or 1.5:1 water to lye ratio.

Good to know about the Cucumber Melon. It's on my "wishlist" for my next order. I've had good luck with most all the FOs from Nurture (and have been unsatisfied with quite a few of the ones from WSP).

I've mostly soaped at 33% and had good luck with 35% since our wet winter weather began. Patience has never been my strong suit, and I was trying to speed things (in a different, ie, curing, way, haha) using 37%. Won't don that again!

 

[linne1gi]

Good to know about the Cucumber Melon. It's on my "wishlist" for my next order. I've had good luck with most all the FOs from Nurture (and have been unsatisfied with quite a few of the ones from WSP).

I've mostly soaped at 33% and had good luck with 35% since our wet winter weather began. Patience has never been my strong suit, and I was trying to speed things (in a different, ie, curing, way, haha) using 37%. Won't don that again!

Keep in mind that curing isn't just the water evaporating.

 

[GemstonePony]

Probably about 20 minutes from dispersing it in water until adding to oils and then adding the lye water. I added the dispersed GMP to the oils all at once and stick blended it again before adding the lye.

So the fats probably didn't incorporate. In the post I linked to, the GMP was dispersed in the newly-melted batch oils instead and blended occasionally as the mixture cooled down, and there weren't any powder bits in the finished soap.

 

[Monab]

Just finished a batch and all went well until I added the FO, and it seized the moment I poured it in. I used Crafter's Choice Cool Cucumber. WSP says no acceleration, but there were at least 1 or 2 reviewers who said it accelerates (there may be more, but I didn't read all 123 reviews). I don't know if the FO is totally at fault or something else in my recipe. With so many variables, sometimes it's hard to tell where the problem lies.

I've also been trying to adjust the water in my recipes because I live in Oregon and we've had rain after rain after rain, and my soaps are taking much longer to unmold and cure than they did in the summer months. I was using the default lye concentration of 33.33%, but have tried upping it to 35%, and then in today's batch to 37%. (Any other suggestions to help deal with cold, humid weather much appreciated.)

Here's the rest of my recipe:
OO 35%
Palm oil 34%
CO 15%
Avocado oil 10%
Castor oil 6%
Sodium lactate 1 tsp PPO

I also added goat milk powder. I used 7 oz of water in my lye (4.65 oz) solution. I mixed the GMP with the other .92 oz water, and mixed it into my oils. Batter was fluid and perfect until the FO hit, then bam! It glopped right where it hit. I used the SB to mix it enough to plop in my mold, but I don't think my swirls are going to look very swirly when I cut tomorrow!

Thank you for any insights you can offer!

Olive oil takes longer to unmold and get hard. You can add sodium lactate to harden I believe it 1 every 16 ounce. With most FO and EO you have to do small test to see how it reacts your toingredient. Even if it says no acceleration. For me I've always leave room for accerlation.
However, I've changed my recipe when something happens over and over again.
Also, if you want your bar to harden you can use less than 1 oz of beeswax. It will harden it for sure. Also, the amount of oilve oil use can determine your unmold time and the temperature of your soaping area. If this was my soaping recipe I would calculate it like this:
Coconut oil 30%
Olive oil 25%
Palm oil 20%
Castor oil 10%
Avocado oil 15%

If you having a hard time you can try incorating a butter. Shea, mango or cocoa butter. Thoese can help with hardness as well.
Over the past couple of month I've been testing how my soap reacts with my recipe. So, far the only thing I've changed is the amount of oilve oil I add to my recipe. 30% for coconut oil and 25% for olive oil.

Hey, this just my opinion base md on mg experience. The percentage I use is always at 33%. Also, the amount of liquid you add affects how long it takes to unmold.
If you're open to using the same recipe but different percentage maybe that might help.Maybe, give you enough time to work with your batch and not worry about it being lye heavy.