Making (Syndet) Shampoo Bars

[amd]

After tons of reading and recipe searching, I finally dove into the world of syndet shampoo bars. A quick search of the forum didn't bring up anything recent regarding syndets, so I thought I would start a new thread as I ran into a bit of trouble with my first test batch.

I've been using a syndet bar that I picked up in my China travels, and one of my Chinese colleagues was able to get a few more bars for me, but I'm down to my last bar, so it seems like a good time to dig in and experiment. I've also had a few requests from customers to make them, but I'm a long way from selling them.

I'm going to start by apologizing because I have no pictures - if I had an inkling of foresight I would have photographed the process to post for help - 'cuz I think I need it.

Here's the recipe that I used from WSP May 2018 Handmade Magazine:
4.05 oz SCI Noodles (I used powder - problem #1?)
3.20 oz Cocamidypropl Betaine (liquid)
4.05 oz SLSa (powder)
.70 oz Conditioning Emulsifying Wax (I think this is usually called BTMS)
.70 oz Horsetail Butter
.40 oz sodium lactate
.30 oz silk amino acids
.15 oz fragrance oil
.10 oz germall plus

Here's what I did:
In a hot water bath I melted together SCI and betaine. I'm using "melted" loosely, I heated it for about 15 minutes until it was a loose gooey mess and somewhat translucent. Although overthinking the situation, it might have just been a pearlization reaction to stirring a surfactant and not actually melting it.

I then measured out the remaining ingredients, excluding FO and preservative, and added that into the container in the hot water bath. I stirred and heated through for about 5 minutes.

I removed from the hot water bath, and allowed to cool to about 120°F before adding my FO and preservative. The directions said 122°F, so I was slightly under. I also added 1/8 tsp of mica, so that I could see if I had the FO/preservative mixed in thoroughly, and also so that I could tell my experiments from each other - I'm expecting some tweaks as I go along.

After mixing this all in, I started smooshing it into the molds. It was then that I noticed some pellet-like chunks that very closely resembled the ewax pellets. I'm suspecting that I didn't get the ewax melted thoroughly.

Some questions: Is the difference between SCI powder and noodles enough to mess up this recipe? I didn't find any reading material that said noodles needed to be used exclusively.
Will SCI powder melt the same as noodles?
How do you tell when the SCI is melted thoroughly?
Would there be a problem if I melted the ewax before adding it to the other ingredients?

If you've made shampoo bars and you have tips and tricks, please share them! Especially for molding... cuz gosh that was messy...

 

[shunt2011]

I’m interested. I have another recipe I’m wanting to try but waiting for one last ingredient. Hopefully tomorrow or Monday.

 

[cmzaha]

The powder is better. As I mentioned in the other thread try mixing your oils and liquid surf and SCI melt in the micro. I use a 2 qt pyrex measuring cup for mine. It is a royal pain to melt sci and forget the noodles I could never get them melted. Micro will take up to 40 minutes to melt everything. I use some sunflower oil in mine if I remember correctly and it helps with melting. Obsidian might remember what is in my syndet bar, I do not have my recipe on the computer I have at moms. I do remember I had to add stearic acid to toughen them up.

 

[Cellador]

I also use the SCI powder and I find it's pretty easy to work with. It never completely melts, but it kind of turns into a sticky, plastic-like blob.
I do a three phase recipe, with a double boiler. Step 1 is melting all the surfactants together. Step 2 is melting the BTMS, butters, thickeners, etc. Step 3 is cool down ingredients. I do steps 1 & 2 simultaneously. It generally helps if I keep the stove/burner pretty high but not quite boiling. Once I finish melting, I mix the surfactants & butter/waxes together, cool, then add cool down ingredients, and pack into the mold.
I say "pack" because the melted mix is usually trying to solidify a bit by the time it reaches cool down temps. It's sticky and I definitely have to use the scoop and pack method to condense the bar. I see very few syndet bars that are smooth & glossy in texture...I think it's the nature of the product.
Hope this helps!
Edit- errors

 

[cmzaha]

My recipe actually is pour-able enough that I get nice heart shape bars that are quite smooth and my SCI does melt in the micro with patience and a lot of stirring down. Plus side is these do not melt in hot weather or get mushy when used. It did take a lot of trials before I came up with a nice workable syndet shampoo bar.

 

[Cellador]

My recipe actually is pour-able enough that I get nice heart shape bars that are quite smooth and my SCI does melt in the micro with patience and a lot of stirring down. Plus side is these do not melt in hot weather or get mushy when used. It did take a lot of trials before I came up with a nice workable syndet shampoo bar.

Interesting, I might need to try the microwave. At what temps do you add your cool down ingredients?

 

[amd]

I'll give the microwave a whirl this weekend.

I tried the shampoo bar last night, it didn't get mushy in the shower. My hair didn't feel as clean during the washing, but today it looks better than usual and it's so soft I can't stop touching it, haha. I keep petting myself... The shampoo bar worked really well for shaving too. The lather is a lot looser than the shampoo bar I usually use. Might have been because I didn't have everything fully melted down. So I'll try to melt down the other bars, add the preservative.

A pourable syndet would be nice! The smooshing and packing is a pain! @cmzaha do you mind sharing the recipe when you get home? I understand if it's something you want to keep private too.

 

[cmzaha]

It is not as pourable as cp soap, but I do get it poured pretty smooth in my heart molds.

 

[amd]

Bahahaha... so I finally got around to my second attempt at these... only two months later!

This recipe I cut the horsetail butter down to about .5 oz, and then tweaked the other ingredients by percentages to put them more inline with other recipes that I've seen. I'll post an updated recipe in amounts/percentages tonight.

I did make it in the microwave this time, which was much faster and more consistent results as far as getting everything melted. It was a much smoother consistency and easier to get smooshed into the molds - kind of. (see below re: cooling to add preservative) I used a large shallow round baking dish, so there was more surface area to work with in the microwave, so I was able to do this in maybe 10 minutes of 1 minute microwaving bursts, with only a slight casualty the last round of microwaving. Next time I'll do it in 30 second bursts.

One thing I had a problem with was cooling to get under 122°F to add the preservative (I used Germall Plus). It seemed once it [the mixture] got to 135°F, it started to get too hard and I was worried I wouldn't be able to pack it into the mold. I think I'm going to spend some time educating myself on preservatives and see if I can find one that works at a bit higher temps so that I don't have to wait to add it. This well help a lot with molding. So... that said, my mixture was at about 125°F when I added the preservative. These are for personal use, so I'm not concerned if the preservative fails, but for future selling I do want to make sure I'm doing it correctly.

This batch molded much nicer, the mold details came out cleanly and the lather I got from crumbs is much better. I suspect the horsetail butter is cutting some of the lather, so tweaking that down helped. I think any less than .5 oz and it won't be worth putting in.

ETA: Clarified what I was cooling...

 

[madison]

One thing I had a problem with was cooling to get under 122°F to add the preservative (I used Germall Plus). It seemed once it [the mixture] got to 135°F, it started to get too hard and I was worried I wouldn't be able to pack it into the mold. I think I'm going to spend some time educating myself on preservatives and see if I can find one that works at a bit higher temps so that I don't have to wait to add it

I like Optiphen plus it's heat tolerant to 176 F. I hope this helps you.

amd I would like to mention that you still need to check the guidelines from your supplier, because some times if it happen that optiphen plus solidifies at temp. below 100 F then you need to keep stirring while slowly bringing up the temp. to 122F. It's always good to check with your supplier

 

[amd]

Thanks @madison - I typically don't follow other people's guidelines blindly without doing some research into what I'm using - not because I think people give faulty advice but because it is so easy to unintentionally give faulty advice. Typos happen frequently, so if someone says 120, do they mean one 120 or did they mean 150 or 130 or something else entirely? I always follow up with research education. Preservatives are not something I want to get wrong.

 

[shunt2011]

I've had issues with Optiphen Plus solidifying at too hot of a temp. My sugar scrubs, if I don't add it relatively cool it balls up and becomes a glob. I just heat till melted and the would add the Optiphen and it would ball up immediately. So now I cool it down quite a bit (just warm) before adding. I haven't taken the temp at the low end though.

 

[madison]

Thanks @madison - I typically don't follow other people's guidelines blindly without doing some research into what I'm using - not because I think people give faulty advice but because it is so easy to unintentionally give faulty advice. Typos happen frequently, so if someone says 120, do they mean one 120 or did they mean 150 or 130 or something else entirely? I always follow up with research education. Preservatives are not something I want to get wrong.

I totally agree with you, it's very important to research and get the accurate information.