Making liquid shampoo

[Rattanjeet]

Hi

I am trying to make the liquid shampoo , it is giving my hair volume, but not giving that shine and silky-ness to may hair that am looking for. Would like to ask which ingredients do I add to have silky and shiny hair.?

 

[Tara_H]

If you tell us what ingredients you're using so far it will help people to help you

 

[Quanta]

The rule of thumb is that shampoo removes things from your hair, and conditioners add them. So as long as your shampoo is effectively removing from your hair things like excess sebum and styling products, you are free to add to your conditioner things like silicone (which works really well for me) to make your hair shiny. If your hair can handle it, coconut oil is supposed to be really good for hair. Some people's hair type just doesn't tolerate it, but if you are Indian as your postbit indicates, you probably have a hair type that will benefit from coconut oil.

And like @Tara_H said, having your formula will help us advise you. You might be using something that will make you hair dull no matter what else you add, and seeing what you're using will help us determine that.

 

[Rattanjeet]

The rule of thumb is that shampoo removes things from your hair, and conditioners add them. So as long as your shampoo is effectively removing from your hair things like excess sebum and styling products, you are free to add to your conditioner things like silicone (which works really well for me) to make your hair shiny. If your hair can handle it, coconut oil is supposed to be really good for hair. Some people's hair type just doesn't tolerate it, but if you are Indian as your postbit indicates, you probably have a hair type that will benefit from coconut oil.

And like @Tara_H said, having your formula will help us advise you. You might be using something that will make you hair dull no matter what else you add, and seeing what you're using will help us determine that.

Sure, Am using water,SCI, decyl glycoside , CAPB, glycerin, Peg 150 distearate & d panthenol. Besides this just the preservatives and the FO

 

[Quanta]

Sure, Am using water,SCI, decyl glycoside , CAPB, glycerin, Peg 150 distearate & d panthenol. Besides this just the preservatives and the FO

Decyl Glucoside has a pretty high pH, and nothing else in your formula has a low enough pH to get the overall product down to acceptable levels. Have you measured the pH of your finished shampoo? If it is 6 or higher, it will raise the cuticle of your hair and make your hair look dull no matter what else you add. You have to get the pH down to about 4.4 or 5 or so, so that the cuticle lays flat against the hair strand. That will make your hair much easier to work with and will reduce breakage, as well. Hair with a cuticle that lays down flat will look much shinier than hair with a raised cuticle.

You will need to add citric acid as a pH adjuster. I made a 50% solution with distilled water, and use just drops at a time in a test batch to get the pH down. Measure the pH, stir in a drop or two of citric acid solution, stir it in thoroughly and test again. To measure the pH it is best to use either the plastic sticks with the four colored squares on one end, or a properly calibrated pH meter. I don't trust the paper strips.

The pH of your conditioner matters too, if you're using one. I would suggest silicones and coconut oil in a conditioner to make your hair shiny. Another benefit to using these things in the conditioner is that shampoo made without them will later better. Silicone oil is actually used as an anti-foaming agent in detergents used in industrial processes where lather would not be desirable. Also, putting anything that needs to stay on your hair into your shampoo, means it gets washed off and doesn't stick. Remember, shampoo washes things off your hair, and conditioner lets them stick.

 

[Rattanjeet]

Decyl Glucoside has a pretty high pH, and nothing else in your formula has a low enough pH to get the overall product down to acceptable levels. Have you measured the pH of your finished shampoo? If it is 6 or higher, it will raise the cuticle of your hair and make your hair look dull no matter what else you add. You have to get the pH down to about 4.4 or 5 or so, so that the cuticle lays flat against the hair strand. That will make your hair much easier to work with and will reduce breakage, as well. Hair with a cuticle that lays down flat will look much shinier than hair with a raised cuticle.

You will need to add citric acid as a pH adjuster. I made a 50% solution with distilled water, and use just drops at a time in a test batch to get the pH down. Measure the pH, stir in a drop or two of citric acid solution, stir it in thoroughly and test again. To measure the pH it is best to use either the plastic sticks with the four colored squares on one end, or a properly calibrated pH meter. I don't trust the paper strips.

The pH of your conditioner matters too, if you're using one. I would suggest silicones and coconut oil in a conditioner to make your hair shiny. Another benefit to using these things in the conditioner is that shampoo made without them will later better. Silicone oil is actually used as an anti-foaming agent in detergents used in industrial processes where lather would not be desirable. Also, putting anything that needs to stay on your hair into your shampoo, means it gets washed off and doesn't stick. Remember, shampoo washes things off your hair, and conditioner lets them stick.

Hey Thank you, my shampoo ph level is 6-6.5 and I have been told that anything below 7 is good.
secondly, you asking me to adjust the ph level with citric acid but will it give shine to my hair? What can I do to give my hair the shine.
I understand that conditioner helps. But what if I am only using shampoo and no conditioner

 

[Quanta]

Hey Thank you, my shampoo ph level is 6-6.5 and I have been told that anything below 7 is good.
secondly, you asking me to adjust the ph level with citric acid but will it give shine to my hair? What can I do to give my hair the shine.
I understand that conditioner helps. But what if I am only using shampoo and no conditioner

Below 7 is ok, but below 5 or 5.5 is better. 7 is neutral, so if it's 6 or 6.5 at least it's not alkaline, but you will still want to get it a little lower if you can. Since acidity is what closes the cuticle, yes, it will help to make your hair shinier. You won't need much citric acid to get it there. If you have some on hand I'd recommend you give it a try.

I do want to point out that a good shampoo will only do so much to make your hair shiny, and that following up with a well formulated conditioner will be what really brings out the shine. Are you already working on a conditioner?

ETA: Just saw your question about conditioner. There are only a few hair types that benefit from minimal conditioning. These can get by on a little conditioner added to their shampoo (a 2-in-1 product). If you want shine, you're better off using a separate conditioner. Remember, shampoo doesn't allow much to deposit on the hair, and you want the conditioning agents to deposit and not get washed off by the shampoo.

 

[Rattanjeet]

Below 7 is ok, but below 5 or 5.5 is better. 7 is neutral, so if it's 6 or 6.5 at least it's not alkaline, but you will still want to get it a little lower if you can. Since acidity is what closes the cuticle, yes, it will help to make your hair shinier. You won't need much citric acid to get it there. If you have some on hand I'd recommend you give it a try.

I do want to point out that a good shampoo will only do so much to make your hair shiny, and that following up with a well formulated conditioner will be what really brings out the shine. Are you already working on a conditioner?

ETA: Just saw your question about conditioner. There are only a few hair types that benefit from minimal conditioning. These can get by on a little conditioner added to their shampoo (a 2-in-1 product). If you want shine, you're better off using a separate conditioner. Remember, shampoo doesn't allow much to deposit on the hair, and you want the conditioning agents to deposit and not get washed off by the shampoo.

I do make conditioner and use it as well, but my husband and kids dont. Their hair becomes rough and dry after the wash. So I am on the same page with you that conditioner do benefits our hair.
As far as citric acid is concerned, I will try using it.
But is there any ingredient which I can add to have a shiny hair? Dimethicone helps? or may be hydrolysed silk protein? or keratin ?

I understand that adding keratin or silk protein would be expensive ?

 

[KiwiMoose]

I don't make liquid shampoo but i found these three ingredients to greatly help my solid shampoo ( to reduce dry, frizzy hair):
Fractionated coconut oil
Vegetable lanolin
Vegetable silicone

 

[Tara_H]

I don't make liquid shampoo but i found these three ingredients to greatly help my solid shampoo ( to reduce dry, frizzy hair):
Fractionated coconut oil
Vegetable lanolin
Vegetable silicone

What's your source for vegetable silicone? I've made one batch of conditioner with horsetail tea but the jury's still out on that one - it's a bit too conditioning and my hair doesn't look quite clean after using it. Could well be the other ingredients though.

 

[KiwiMoose]

What's your source for vegetable silicone? I've made one batch of conditioner with horsetail tea but the jury's still out on that one - it's a bit too conditioning and my hair doesn't look quite clean after using it. Could well be the other ingredients though.

It's a local company - but they must source it from somewhere overseas? I just don't know where.

 

[lsg]

Try the Humblebee & Me blog for good info on making shampoos.

 

[Quanta]

I do make conditioner and use it as well, but my husband and kids dont. Their hair becomes rough and dry after the wash. So I am on the same page with you that conditioner do benefits our hair.
As far as citric acid is concerned, I will try using it.
But is there any ingredient which I can add to have a shiny hair? Dimethicone helps? or may be hydrolysed silk protein? or keratin ?

If shampoo is making their hair rough and dry, the first thing I think of is the pH is too high. The second thing I think of is that maybe it isn't rinsing out thoroughly. Do you have hard water? A chelator might help if you do. Try either disodium EDTA or sodium gluconate. A chelator will also help boost your preservative efficacy, so it serves multiple purposes in your formula.

I understand that adding keratin or silk protein would be expensive ?

Not only would those be expensive, but they don't work the way people think they do.

When your hair follicles grow hair, nutrients in your bloodstream are what they use to construct the hair strand. The part of the hair that is still inside the follicle is alive and growing, absorbing vitamins and protein from the tiny blood vessels that run under each follicle. The part of the hair that is outside the follicle has died, and the cells are no longer capable of taking up proteins and vitamins and incorporating them into its structure. Some broken down protein fragments (which is what silk protein and keratin additives are) will sometimes stick to the hair strand a little bit under certain circumstances and behave as a weak conditioning agent, but they wash out again the next time the hair is washed because they can't actually become part of the hair strand to reinforce and strengthen the hair. If you want a really good conditioner, the most intense I know of is behentrimonium methosulfate (BTMS). It also only sticks to the hair without becoming part of it, but it does so better than any fragmented protein additive can. BTMS is also a really good emulsifier, and if you want to use dimethicone or other silicones, it is the only emulsifier you should use.

Silicones are going to form a film on your skin and hair that lets oxygen through but not water. So on your scalp, it will keep your skin moisturized by not letting water evaporate out, and on the hair strands it will prevent your hair getting frizzy in humidity by not letting water get in. The nice thing about silicones is that they wash out easily with shampoo, so there is no residue that keeps building up every time you use products that contain them. Some people say that they do build up a residue but they don't as long as you use a good, clean-rinsing shampoo.

 

[Rattanjeet]

If shampoo is making their hair rough and dry, the first thing I think of is the pH is too high. The second thing I think of is that maybe it isn't rinsing out thoroughly. Do you have hard water? A chelator might help if you do. Try either disodium EDTA or sodium gluconate. A chelator will also help boost your preservative efficacy, so it serves multiple purposes in your formula.

I do use EDTa, although the water is not hard here.

Not only would those be expensive, but they don't work the way people think they do.

When your hair follicles grow hair, nutrients in your bloodstream are what they use to construct the hair strand. The part of the hair that is still inside the follicle is alive and growing, absorbing vitamins and protein from the tiny blood vessels that run under each follicle. The part of the hair that is outside the follicle has died, and the cells are no longer capable of taking up proteins and vitamins and incorporating them into its structure. Some broken down protein fragments (which is what silk protein and keratin additives are) will sometimes stick to the hair strand a little bit under certain circumstances and behave as a weak conditioning agent, but they wash out again the next time the hair is washed because they can't actually become part of the hair strand to reinforce and strengthen the hair. If you want a really good conditioner, the most intense I know of is behentrimonium methosulfate (BTMS). It also only sticks to the hair without becoming part of it, but it does so better than any fragmented protein additive can. BTMS is also a really good emulsifier, and if you want to use dimethicone or other silicones, it is the only emulsifier you should use.

Silicones are going to form a film on your skin and hair that lets oxygen through but not water. So on your scalp, it will keep your skin moisturized by not letting water evaporate out, and on the hair strands it will prevent your hair getting frizzy in humidity by not letting water get in. The nice thing about silicones is that they wash out easily with shampoo, so there is no residue that keeps building up every time you use products that contain them. Some people say that they do build up a residue but they don't as long as you use a good, clean-rinsing shampoo

I must say you have a in-depth knowledge of things. Hat -off to you Quanta, Its really helpful.
I surely try on 2 things
1) will try bring down the ph level to 5-5.5 and
2) will add dimethicone to my shampoo.

Will come back to you after seeing the result

Just to tell you I do use BTMS-50 in my conditioner and got an excellent result.

 

[Quanta]

I must say you have a in-depth knowledge of things. Hat -off to you Quanta, Its really helpful.
I surely try on 2 things
1) will try bring down the ph level to 5-5.5 and
2) will add dimethicone to my shampoo.

Will come back to you after seeing the result

Just to tell you I do use BTMS-50 in my conditioner and got an excellent result.

I'm happy to help.

I will caution you regarding dimethicone in shampoo. It may not stay mixed in well, and if you do get it to mix in properly, it will reduce the lather you get. That's why I mentioned it being used to suppress lather in industrial detergents. I recommend you use it only in conditioner. If you want to make a 2-in-1 shampoo/conditioner, you'll need to use something else. I'm on break at work right now so I can't do it right now but later I will give you some recommendations. Remember "conditioned" doesn't always mean "shiny", but conditioned hair will feel smoother.

 

[sri496]

I must say you have a in-depth knowledge of things. Hat -off to you Quanta, Its really helpful.
I surely try on 2 things
1) will try bring down the ph level to 5-5.5 and
2) will add dimethicone to my shampoo.

Will come back to you after seeing the result

Just to tell you I do use BTMS-50 in my conditioner and got an excellent result.

Hi , can I know from where you procure BTMS-50? I’m from India and I’m not able to procure it here. I saw few sellers selling in Amazon, but I’m not sure if they are selling BTMS as BTMS -50 as I could see few bad reviews regarding it. Can you please help me out in procuring it as I had to make some body butters this winter? Thanks.

 

[Quanta]

I'm happy to help.

I will caution you regarding dimethicone in shampoo. It may not stay mixed in well, and if you do get it to mix in properly, it will reduce the lather you get. That's why I mentioned it being used to suppress lather in industrial detergents. I recommend you use it only in conditioner. If you want to make a 2-in-1 shampoo/conditioner, you'll need to use something else. I'm on break at work right now so I can't do it right now but later I will give you some recommendations. Remember "conditioned" doesn't always mean "shiny", but conditioned hair will feel smoother.

Ok. I have some findings to report. I opened my grocery store's shopping app and searched for "2 in 1 shampoo" and started reading ingredient lists, to see what the big brands are using. It looks like they are mostly using some combination of: Dimethicone, Polyquaternium 10, and guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride. The one that had an ingredient list most similar to yours, used only Polyquaternium 10. This was in a shampoo for babies and toddlers.

So, you can use silicones in a shampoo, but I am not sure which surfactants are best for using with dimethicone. Most of the ones that I saw that used it, had sodium laureth sulfate, sodium lauryl sulfate, and cocamidopropyl betaine as their main surfactants, with the other surfactants varying from product to product. But those are very popular surfactants anyway. One thing they had in common, was the dimethicone was usually somewhere between the 1% and 2% place in the ingredient lists.

The Polyquaternium 10 and guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride were usually below the 1% line.

So, if you already have the dimethicone, I suggest you make one small batch of shampoo and then divide it up and try different percentages of dimethicone in your samples (leave one sample without it). Number some bottles and write down how much dimethicone each one has. Let them sit for a few days to see if they'll separate. If they're good, give all the samples to your family and have them try each one, including the one without any dimethicone. (I'm not sure if your kids are old enough, so if not maybe get some friends or neighbors to help test it). Once everyone has used each shampoo at least once, have them tell you which they liked best, and why they liked it. Make sure they don't know what the difference is between them. Scent them all the same, or leave out the fragrance.

This way, you'll know for sure what kind of benefit dimethicone has in shampoo. I'd be interested in hearing your results if you do this.

Hi , can I know from where you procure BTMS-50? I’m from India and I’m not able to procure it here. I saw few sellers selling in Amazon, but I’m not sure if they are selling BTMS as BTMS -50 as I could see few bad reviews regarding it. Can you please help me out in procuring it as I had to make some body butters this winter? Thanks.

A little while back we had a thread here for soap making suppliers in India, I skimmed the list but I'm not sure if any of the sites have things besides strictly soap making ingredients. Here's that thread anyway: Soap making ingredients suppliers in India

I suggest you start a new thread in the Shopping Recommendations area and ask if anyone knows where you can get it. We have quite a few members from India here and you might get several recommendations for sites that sell bath and body product ingredients.

 

[Rattanjeet]

Hi , can I know from where you procure BTMS-50? I’m from India and I’m not able to procure it here. I saw few sellers selling in Amazon, but I’m not sure if they are selling BTMS as BTMS -50 as I could see few bad reviews regarding it. Can you please help me out in procuring it as I had to make some body butters this winter? Thanks.

Hi , Which part of India? Good to see ppl from India on this forum
There are actually 2 places from where you can have it, one is Sridevi chemicals.com. There are chennai based and second from Delhi NCR, Name is Pioneer Chemicals.in you shall be able to find their contact details on google. if not , let me know

 

[Rattanjeet]

Pioneer Chemicals contact No - 9899032261
www.Sridevichemicals.com

 

[sri496]

Pioneer Chemicals contact No - 9899032261
www.Sridevichemicals.com

Thanks a lot for providing the details. I’m from Hyderabad. I will check with them and will take it forward. Now a days I also could see lot of people here in India showing interest in making many things on their own which is a good trend.