Lye based goat milk soap with EOs or FOs? Another rabbit hole of pondering and confusion

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Basil

Basil

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A Small Goat Farm
I hope this is the right thread. I think I may be joining some of you all who started with essential oils and rethought.... @Zing I know you only use essential oils..why is that? @Zany_in_CO you started with essential oils and now tend to use EOs with FOs, and I know many of you I have followed (too many to name LOL) are using FOs or both. I've been a stickler with EOs and have been working on blends, trying to keep scent etc. like the rest of you have. It's been fun because I've wanted to keep everything as 'natural' (whatever that is). I have read the posts about that too. I like keeping things 'nature-wise', partly because it's me, partly because I use my own goat milk, partly for a lot of reasons. But I know soap is a wash off product and the expense of washing it off or it disappears is causing a quandary. I'm trying the different known tactics with kaolin clay but after time, quite a few of the scents disappear- I'm working on the soy wax to retain scent and after 3-4 months the scent has disappeared in some. Granted, so far the usual ones like citrus, but darn! I can make bars plain, with honey etc. and I can make some with essential oils and maybe after trying some FOs I can make those too. I thought about sticking with just some EOs that last longer, but it is limiting. How do you all make your decisions? I know scent is a big part of why people like soap. The very first thing people do is stick their noses on the soap! Do you believe that the majority of people really care where the scent comes from? I live in a granola town, and even then, I'm not sure they pay attention to that. As far as enviornment, does it make a difference? A lot of people don't care about plastic and where it comes from and where it goes... so ? Do you think it makes a difference in goat milk soap? There is one well known company that advertises essential oils in their goat milk soap and I haven't figured out how that's possible. Just going down the aisle of the grocery store I can smell their soap..??? Thanks so much in advance for your thoughts. Perplexed today.Were any of you thinking to yourselves "I wonder when and if she'll make the switch?" :smallshrug: The only other idea is some how get the goats close to essential oils and let them absorb it by osmosis...kind of like being around bucks in rut.. :rolleyes:
 
I started with EOs, mostly because a lot of FOs give me headaches - if not instantly, then definitely within an hour or so if the exposure is ongoing. I don't tend to get that kind of reactions with EOs, which are more likely to give me a skin reaction (flushing, burning) and raised blood pressure. But when I started soaping, I already knew which EOs I could safely use, so that's what I used.

But EOs are expensive, and the scent choices are limiting. Plus, as you noted, many of them do fade faster, although sometimes the scent "reblooms" while in use. Try using some of those faded EO soaps, and you might be pleasantly surprised. Also, have you tried creating blends with base notes, middle notes, and top notes? Those blends often hold much better for me than single-EO soaps, or soaps with only top and middle notes.

Regardless, I did start experimenting with FOs. It's hit or miss for me to find ones that don't give me headaches - but there are plenty that I can tolerate. And even my hardcore "crunchy" friends care more about the smell than the FO ingredients. Perhaps the fact that the soap is handmade without any other ingredients that they find objectionable, they are willing to give the FO a pass.

Bottom line, however, I think you need to find your target customer, and make what they want. You can always have an EO line and an FO line... and see what sells.
 
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Come on, @Basil, you can do it, closer! Closer! You're almost there! Oh for crying out loud, get out of that rabbit hole! Just kidding. :)

When I started soaping, I followed recipes I found online and they called for essential oils. For a while there, pre-SoapmakingForum days, I thought that the only option for scent was EOs.

I have never used FOs when making soap. But I've used artisan soaps made with FOs. This is no offence to soapy friends that do use FOs, but to me they smell "chemically." I don't know how to describe it, but I totally get what @AliOop is saying -- I get a sensation of an almost headache. This is just my personal experience. I also always see on this here forum so many posts about FO "behavior." I have never had an EO that causes trouble and I'm thankful for that. I do also like to use blends with bottom notes. When I visit friends and family and find my soap in their bathrooms, I am frequently pleasantly surprised that the scent can last 12 months or more.

Yes, always always the first thing people do is smell the soap.

I am just a hobbyist who pushes my inventory on friends and family. I look for sales on EOs and stock up. I totally get, though, that sellers have to factor in cost. To each their own.

Good luck figuring all this out. We're here for you.
 
Ditto to @AliOop & @Zing:
I'm a middle of the road' using both either singular or mixed' Ive got soap made w/ EO a year ago & the scent is still detectable. Few main reasons Ive decided to try FO is the selection in EO is limited in that a lot of scent cant be derived from all plant' flowers' & fruits. FO can replicate every scent we can image, also cost plays an important factor too. Every person I've gave soap to the first thing they do is take a big whiff' so I know regardless if its EO or FO scent is important... My "Tree Huggin Friends" don't care about FO'S used in my soap' but they defiantly want to assure its vegan w/ no animal fats...
Good luck in finding which direction fits you & your customer base. Happy Soaping 💫✨
 
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Ditto to @AliOop & @Zing & @Peachy Clean Soap -- Former FO Headache sufferer here. I think the removal of phthalates went a long way to reducing the headache factor. FO's don't seem to bother me as much any more.

Point of Interest: One of my wholesale customers raised goats and sold GM soap. Same recipe. 3 scents: Lavender EO, Ginger Essence FO, and unscented. The unscented languished throughout the season with the fewest customers. The lavender was the top seller (for 10 years I might add). The Ginger Essence was second best. They also made a seasonal limited edition -- WSP's Blooming Tulips FO in April -- just one batch that always sold out quickly and another FO in Autumn. They made Frankincense & Myrrh FO for the holidays.

As far as the expense of EO's vs. FO's, I used less EO (0.5 oz. PPO on average) than FO (0.85 oz. PPO) so that kinda evens out. Also, @Zing's tip about buying EO's (and FO's too) on sale is a real profit-margin booster. Learning to predict when the sales will hit takes time and patience.

Bottom line: Fragrance sells!
Basil said:
Were any of you thinking to yourselves "I wonder when and if she'll make the switch?"
Click to expand...
There are a few top-notch sellers on this forum who use only EOs and do very well. If that's where your comfort level is, I say, stick with it. :thumbs:
At least then your options are limited to maybe a dozen or two options. ;) Too many choices as is the case with FO's is truly crazy-making.

Peachy Clean Soap said:
FO can replicate every scent we can image,
Click to expand...
Except beer maybe. I have yet to make a beer soap that smells like the real thing.
 
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Zany_in_CO said:
Except beer maybe. I have yet to make a beer soap that smells like the real thing.
Click to expand...
Thats interesting, I love to use beer in my soap not for the scent' mainly for the sugar in the beer, it gives soap better bubbles' imho. Ive used several different sugars in one form or another & beer brings something unique to soap. maybe it's the hops' sugar' & fermentation that does it? Oh another scent thats hard to copy is "Leather" a lot of close dupes but hard to find an exact match. It's hard to match mother nature' but we can come close' in many cases.
 
AliOop said:
But EOs are expensive, and the scent choices are limiting. Plus, as you noted, many of them do fade faster, although sometimes the scent "reblooms" while in use. Try using some of those faded EO soaps, and you might be pleasantly surprised. Also, have you tried creating blends with base notes, middle notes, and top notes? Those blends often hold much better for me than single-EO soaps, or soaps with only top and middle notes.

Regardless, I did start experimenting with FOs. It's hit or miss for me to find ones that don't give me headaches - but there are plenty that I can tolerate. And even my hardcore "crunchy" friends care more about the smell than the FO ingredients. Perhaps the fact that the soap is handmade without any other ingredients that they find objectionable, they are willing to give the FO a pass.

Bottom line, however, I think you need to find your target customer, and make what they want. You can always have an EO line and an FO line... and see what sells.
Click to expand...
Lol I Love "crunchy" friends! Mine are the same way. I have been creating blends with all the notes. I paid for a class by Backporch Soap Company to learn more about it . I learned about EOs that help each other etc. I think the only single scent I've used is lavender and last year cinnamon ...I can still smell it ! But it's a little harsh on the skin. That and clove. I appreciate your help AliOop. I'm thinking the same..maybe two lines? I am more encouraged though about the EOs. Thank you!
Zing said:
Come on, @Basil, you can do it, closer! Closer! You're almost there! Oh for crying out loud, get out of that rabbit hole! Just kidding. :)

When I started soaping, I followed recipes I found online and they called for essential oils. For a while there, pre-SoapmakingForum days, I thought that the only option for scent was EOs.

I have never used FOs when making soap. But I've used artisan soaps made with FOs. This is no offence to soapy friends that do use FOs, but to me they smell "chemically." I don't know how to describe it, but I totally get what @AliOop is saying -- I get a sensation of an almost headache. This is just my personal experience. I also always see on this here forum so many posts about FO "behavior." I have never had an EO that causes trouble and I'm thankful for that. I do also like to use blends with bottom notes. When I visit friends and family and find my soap in their bathrooms, I am frequently pleasantly surprised that the scent can last 12 months or more.

Yes, always always the first thing people do is smell the soap.

I am just a hobbyist who pushes my inventory on friends and family. I look for sales on EOs and stock up. I totally get, though, that sellers have to factor in cost. To each their own.

Good luck figuring all this out. We're here for you.
Click to expand...
Thank you Zing! It's interesting you never made the switch.Maybe I am closer than I thought.... I do like black pepper a lot! I think that's one of your favorites right? The online class I took from Backporch soaps ($35) mentioned black pepper, petigrain and palmarosa being underused. I haven't tried petigrain or plamarosa yet. I need to figure out the sales in some other places -branch out. I really appreciate your encouragement. Thanks!
Peachy Clean Soap said:
Ditto to @AliOop & @Zing:
I'm a middle of the road' using both either singular or mixed' Ive got soap made w/ EO a year ago & the scent is still detectable. Few main reasons Ive decided to try FO is the selection in EO is limited in that a lot of scent cant be derived from all plant' flowers' & fruits. FO can replicate every scent we can image, also cost plays an important factor too. Every person I've gave soap to the first thing they do is take a big whiff' so I know regardless if its EO or FO scent is important... My "Tree Huggin Friends" don't care about FO'S used in my soap' but they defiantly want to assure its vegan w/ no animal fats...
Good luck in finding which direction fits you & your customer base. Happy Soaping 💫✨
Click to expand...
Thank you Peachy...I'm seeing the same with the "tree huggin freinds" lol- it's strange. I appreciate your support.
Zany_in_CO said:
Ditto to @AliOop & @Zing & @Peachy Clean Soap -- Former FO Headache sufferer here. I think the removal of phthalates went a long way to reducing the headache factor. FO's don't seem to bother me as much any more.

Point of Interest: One of my wholesale customers raised goats and sold GM soap. Same recipe. 3 scents: Lavender EO, Ginger Essence FO, and unscented. The unscented languished throughout the season with the fewest customers. The lavender was the top seller (for 10 years I might add). The Ginger Essence was second best. They also made a seasonal limited edition -- WSP's Blooming Tulips FO in April -- just one batch that always sold out quickly and another FO in Autumn. They made Frankincense & Myrrh FO for the holidays.

As far as the expense of EO's vs. FO's, I used less EO (0.5 oz. PPO on average) than FO (0.85 oz. PPO) so that kinda evens out. Also, @Zing's tip about buying EO's (and FO's too) on sale is a real profit-margin booster. Learning to predict when the sales will hit takes time and patience.

Bottom line: Fragrance sells!

There are a few top-notch sellers on this forum who use only EOs and do very well. If that's where your comfort level is, I say, stick with it. :thumbs:
At least then your options are limited to maybe a dozen or two options. ;) Too many choices as is the case with FO's is truly crazy-making.


Except beer maybe. I have yet to make a beer soap that smells like the real thing.
Click to expand...
Thanks Zany, I think maybe I need to play around with more scents. I've not tried ginger because I just didn't think it would stick.. not sure why I thought that. But ginger is one of my favorite spices!! Obviously I need to spend more time and not give up I think. Maybe "too many choices" is what I should avoid 🙄....I also didn't realize more amounts of FOs are used. That makes "scents"😄 . Actually, I have tried one FO awhile back . When I made the celebrating Arizona soap with hemp oil I used a fragrance that was supposed to mimic cannabis. It did give me a headache! But I thought it was just that particular one because of what it was supposed to smell like. That was kind of silly on my part and most people don't want to go around smelling like that anyway. Thanks for your help.
@AliOop @Zing @Peachy Clean Soap @Zany_in_CO maybe I need to be more patient. Thanks all 💜
 
I've just started soaping and 2 weeks ago I sent out 6 week old samples to my friends who have agreed to test them out. And the first thing everyone has said so far on receipt is they smell amazing. No matter what formulation. I use primarily FO and 2 recipes have EO. I think smell is the key to success imo in certain markets
 
Primrose said:
I make exclusively goat milk soap, I also sell. I have two lines, a "natural" one with EO and natural colorants and a "artisan" line with FO and mica. I also do fragrance free. I have best sellers in both lines. It's all personal preference.
Click to expand...
Thank you @Primrose! I have a goat with the same name. Basil’s sister . Is that the goat in your avatar?
 

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