lye and oils temperatures

[bhelen]

All those of you who use quite a lot of hard oils in your soaps: do you have your lye and oils at particular temperatures? I made a batch yesterday which was: 45 % Olive Oil, 30% Palm oil, 20% coconut oil and 5 % castor oil, using 100% cow's milk (lye concentration of 31.5% and 5% superfat).

I used frozen milk to make the lye solution, over an ice bucket, and I just heated the coconut and palm oils separately until they melted, then added them to the other oils and poured in the lye right away. I didn't check the temps. It traced almost immediately and I had to spoon a lot of it into the individual silicone molds - not the best look

So, did that happen because the cool lye effectively started solidifying the hard oils right away? I have used exactly the same technique a few times before and not had the problem, but I had used smaller percentages of both palm and coconut, so I'm thinking it's something to do with the temps and the hard oils. On the other hand, isn't it true that soaping too hot will also cause early trace? I'm so confused!

 

[snappyllama]

I use +70% hard oils in my batches. Like you, I melt down the hard ones first, use residual heat to melt my butters and then add in my liquid oils.

I've fiddled with a few different temperatures... normally I end up around 95-100ish for my oils. My lye solution is either the same or a just a bit cooler if I'm making a milk soap. I don't stress about it though... it just seems to always work out that way. I do check first since I like to use my temperature gun (fun!) and checking is part of my habit. I'm a creature of habit that cannot put my car out of park until my seat belt is on... it just feels off.

It could have been that your lye solution was really cold causing false trace or that your oils were too hot causing acceleration. So I guess the short answer is "Yes"?

Do you have a thermometer to check next time?

 

[bhelen]

Yes I have thermometers. I made another batch tonight and heated all the oils together, then waited for them to cool to around 100. Lye was still very cold. It seemed to be fine this time. But you are totally right, I'm going to start making temps a regular part of my notetaking.

 

[shunt2011]

Your recipe is very similar to one of mine. I pretty much soap at room temperature. My lye is room temp and my oils are just warm. I melt hard oils and then add my butters and then liquid. Usually at room temp as well or there about. I have no trouble with quick trace. So, just have them barely warm to the touch on the outside of the container and you should be fine. I do use full water or a slight discount.

 

[xraygrl]

I have never done the room temp thing. I like to control my temps...probably just another OCD thing LOL! I keep my temps between 110-120 F It works for me, and I have the philosophy if it isn't broke, don't fix it.

 

[CrafterAl]

I'm interested in your method of mixing the lye and milk.

I usually let the milk partially melt and break up the bigger ice pieces. My frozen milk has most always been either whole Jersey cow milk or Nubian goat milk. The milk with the cream in it, especially the Jersey milk, is not very homogeneous. That requires a little extra attention when mixing lye to milk to keep everything mixed well.

(Otherwise you get a lot of little globules showing in the milk/lye mix that then show up a little in finished soap. Not too good...)

Then I slowly mix in the lye with milk, with the milk container in ice, which sounds like what you are doing.

I don't just dump on the lye though. I want to maintain control of the potential increase in heat as lye and milk come in contact.

I do the mixing (milk/lye) as the oils are cooling. I can then orchestrate the rise of milk/lye temp to the drop in oil temp so they both get to around 100F at the same time. I do always make use of a thermometer, especially to watch the milk temps. Elevated temperatures can scorch the milk resulting in an unsightly mess.

When both milk/lye and oils are at the right stage of mixing and temperature, then they are combined.

That way I never mix hot oils with cold milk/lye.

With a recipe similar to yours and temperatures around 100F, I have some time to work with additives, but things do move along pretty rapidly.

When I've worked this same type of mixture at slightly higher temps it does seem to go a little quicker.

It sounds to me like you're on the right track.

I'm sure with your experience that you know of the need to make sure the batch of palm oil is well mixed before using it. It does separate, apparently, into layers or sections such that it is not the same throughout a batch.

 

[bhelen]

CrafterAl, it sounds from what you're saying that my lye/milk may actually be too cold, and that may be causing problems in relation to the oils. I have been literally taking the milk from the freezer and almost immediately pouring the lye on to it, a sprinkle at a time so that it doesn't overheat. I did a batch yesterday and the lye didn't even reach 100, it was off the scale cold. And yes, I have had problems with seemingly unmixed globules, no matter how careful I think I'm being. I will try the slush method!

Another question: if I decided to do the split method but still wanted the equivalent of 100% milk, how much milk powder would I have to use and how/when would I add it? I tried the split method a few times and although (obviously) way easier, I like the 100% milk better as a soap.

 

[IrishLass]

Bhelen- to get a 100% milk concentration using the split method, I use the ratio of powder to water that is on the back of my Meyenberg can of powdered goat milk as a guide. The ratio listed is 28g powder to 240mL (8 oz.) water.

Let's say my batch calls for 200g weight of water. I mix my lye with 100g of water, then add the remaining 100g of liquid as milk to mix with my oils. That gives me a 50% milk concentration.

Now, in order to bring my total liquid amount to a 100% milk concentration, I do some math and figure out how much powder would fully reconstitute 100g water, and then I add that amount of powder to my liquid milk portion.

As it turns out, 100g water is pretty much equal to 1/2 cup (4 oz.) water. Well, since I already know that I need 28g powder to mix with 8 oz. water to fully reconstitute it, all I need to do is divide my amount of powder in half to mix with my 4 oz./100g of waiting milk to fortify it, which turns out to be 14g powder.


HTH!
IrishLass

 

[bhelen]

Thanks IrishLass - I am definitely going to give this a try! Math was never my strong point but I will figure it out from what you said! I wish soapcalc had an option for this

 

[MorpheusPA]

I am so not OCD with my temperatures.

I do confess toward loving fully hydrogenated soybean oil (AKA soy wax) for its hardness, near-whiteness, and slight transparency. The melt point is about 120, but if you don't want false trace you have to work considerably warmer. I'd say most of those mixes are soaped with 145-150 degree oils and whatever the lye temperature turns out to be (usually circa 110).

It works beautifully. Trace is slow, giving ample time to work with it (two hours by hand, 15 minutes with a stick blender).

For most other hard oils (coconut and palm, when I use palm), I soap a bit colder. But there I simply melt it and let the heat on another minute or so. I'm not exact with temperatures and everything works out just fine.