Looking for a Palm-Free New Basic Recipe

Soapmaking Forum - Soap & Candle Forums

Help Support Soapmaking Forum - Soap & Candle Forums:

Joined
Feb 15, 2021
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Location
rochester, NY
You need to use soybean 100% hydrogenated. :)

Interestingly, my Oleic is not as high as your is either. Must be a different calculator .
Oh please tell me that you have a source for a fully hydrogenated soy - I have been searching for days. I cannot seem to find anything that specifically states that it is fully hydrogenated - You will be my hero if you know of a brand or source for this magical soy wax :)
 
Joined
Feb 15, 2021
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Location
rochester, NY
Thanks Richard - I have the golden wax 415 (Akosoy 5715-00-77) - which I think might be the same as you are using - but it is partially hydrogenated. I thought all of the soy wax was fully hydrogenated - but it isn't - and because there is little by way of soap making info on this wax (candle making mostly what I can find), I cannot confirm the % steric acid. Which is what sent me on my fruitless search. Have you used this for shaving soap where you need a high steric content?
What I found via a previous post was that the estimate on this was around 37% steric
 
Joined
Nov 16, 2018
Messages
4,739
Reaction score
11,740
Location
Hamilton, New Zealand
Thanks Richard - I have the golden wax 415 (Akosoy 5715-00-77) - which I think might be the same as you are using - but it is partially hydrogenated. I thought all of the soy wax was fully hydrogenated - but it isn't - and because there is little by way of soap making info on this wax (candle making mostly what I can find), I cannot confirm the % steric acid. Which is what sent me on my fruitless search. Have you used this for shaving soap where you need a high steric content?
What I found via a previous post was that the estimate on this was around 37% steric
@Mobjack Bay has done all the calcs on the stearic acid content of Soy Wax.
Unless you want to use it specifically for shaving soap or similar, I tend to just use it as 'fully hydrogenated sox wax' in the soap calculators for the purpose of everyday soap making. My soap turns out fine using the calcs.
 
Joined
Feb 15, 2021
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Location
rochester, NY
@Mobjack Bay has done all the calcs on the stearic acid content of Soy Wax.
Unless you want to use it specifically for shaving soap or similar, I tend to just use it as 'fully hydrogenated sox wax' in the soap calculators for the purpose of everyday soap making. My soap turns out fine using the calcs.
Yep. looking for it specifically for a palm/animal fat free shaving soap. :)
 

SoapM0m

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2021
Messages
51
Reaction score
41
Location
Virginia
Okay I think I've *finally* settled on a palm-free recipe using soy wax, which comes today! I will post the recipe below in a sec. The only thing I don't love about this recipe compared to my old one is that it's a bit lower in lauric (from 14 down to 12), so I'm toying with the idea of using sugar, which I've never tried before. Can I still do CP if I do sugar?? Here's the recipe:
Coconut Oil, 76 deg24.387.8221.13
Olive Oil20.316.5184.27
Rice Bran Oil, refined18.756170.1
Soybean, fully hydrogenated (soy wax)17.815.7161.59
Shea Butter103.290.72
Castor Oil51.645.36
Avocado Oil3.751.234.02
Total10032 907.18
and here's the numbers for it:

Lauric12
Myristic5
Palmitic12
Stearic21
Ricinoleic5
Oleic30
Linoleic11
Linolenic1

So please advise as to how much sugar I should add, if I can do CP still. Thank you!
 

dibbles

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Joined
May 6, 2015
Messages
8,154
Reaction score
10,926
Location
Minnesota
You can use sugar with CP. You will need to dissolve it in some of your batch water before adding the lye. I take a little out, warm it a bit and add the sugar, stir until it is dissolved and add it back to the batch water before I add my lye. I use 1-2 tsp PPO, but others use up to 2 Tbsp PPO. I find the lower amount is enough with 25% coconut oil, and you are close to that. Subbing aloe juice for part or all of your water amount will add bubbles as well.
 

SoapM0m

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2021
Messages
51
Reaction score
41
Location
Virginia
You can use sugar with CP. You will need to dissolve it in some of your batch water before adding the lye. I take a little out, warm it a bit and add the sugar, stir until it is dissolved and add it back to the batch water before I add my lye. I use 1-2 tsp PPO, but others use up to 2 Tbsp PPO. I find the lower amount is enough with 25% coconut oil, and you are close to that. Subbing aloe juice for part or all of your water amount will add bubbles as well.
Thank you Dibbles! Very helpful!
 

Richard Perrine

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2018
Messages
200
Reaction score
211
Location
Sandy, UT
Thanks Richard - I have the golden wax 415 (Akosoy 5715-00-77) - which I think might be the same as you are using - but it is partially hydrogenated. I thought all of the soy wax was fully hydrogenated - but it isn't - and because there is little by way of soap making info on this wax (candle making mostly what I can find), I cannot confirm the % steric acid. Which is what sent me on my fruitless search. Have you used this for shaving soap where you need a high steric content?
What I found via a previous post was that the estimate on this was around 37% steric
Sorry for the tardy response and may not be relevant at this point, but I only make soap with the wax. I regard it as fully hydrogenated soy wax (in soapcalc) and my soaps have been consistent.
 

Katie68121

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2020
Messages
77
Reaction score
144
Location
Ewa Beach
My current recipe is below
32% olive
32% shea
30% coconut
6% castor

Vegan and palm free!
Wouldnt this be a soft over drying bar? Do you superfat?

A little late to this thread, but ive been wanting to make a harder bar with no palm and no animal fats. I’ve tried in the past but the bars still were too soft. Any suggestion? I was thinking maybe up the coconut oil and superfat…use more cocoa butter too? Not a fan of soy wax Or beeswax in soap. I recently purchased a bar from Muddy Mint on Etsy and she doesn’t use palm or lard, so curious how that is in terms of hardness. Thanks for any advice!
 

earlene

Grandmother & Soaper
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2016
Messages
9,616
Reaction score
11,678
Location
Western Illinois, USA
Wouldnt this be a soft over drying bar? Do you superfat?
Victoria hasn't been around since July, so may not see your question. But this should not be a soft soap at all. Drying to some, perhaps, but it depends on the user's skin as some tolerate higher amounts of coconut oil in soap than others. Also some find Olive oil drying, while others do not.
A little late to this thread, but ive been wanting to make a harder bar with no palm and no animal fats. I’ve tried in the past but the bars still were too soft. Any suggestion? I was thinking maybe up the coconut oil and superfat…use more cocoa butter too? Not a fan of soy wax Or beeswax in soap. I recently purchased a bar from Muddy Mint on Etsy and she doesn’t use palm or lard, so curious how that is in terms of hardness. Thanks for any advice!

Upping the SF (Super Fat) will not harden the bar soap, but make it softer, so that is not the answer to make harder soap.

Some ways to make no-palm & no-animal-fat soaps harder is to use more hard oils, such as Cocoa Butter, Mango Butter, Shea Butter, etc. Coconut oil makes hard soap, but it melts away in use faster than many other hard oils, besides its high cleansing property that leads to skin dryness if too much is used (for those who find it drying in excess.) True Olive Oil (not adulterated) makes very hard soap. Depending if you want to avoid all byproducts of living creatures (other than plants) or only the death of living animals, you can add beeswax (3%) or other waxes or stearic acid (you would need to source it from vegetable products, though & that can be difficult. (I think I found some once, but don't recall where. It's more often made from animal or palm sources.)

Other ways to harden soap: add salt; use vinegar (lye adjustment needed); add Sodium Lactate; use faux sea water as described here. Rice water (from cooked rice) lends some hardness (personal experience - not scientifically proven.)

But first, I would suggest lowering your water to lye ratio (2:1 or less, 2 being the water). With less water in your lye solution, the soap will harden up faster. With less SF, there is less unsaponified oil to soften the soap.

I use a very low SF and generally use a lye concentration of 35% or higher. Lye concentration means the amount of NaOH (or KOH if you use any) in water. 35 grams of NaOH in 100 grams of lye solution = 35% Lye Concentration. [35% Lye] In other words 35 grams of NaOH + 65 grams of water (or liquid) = 100 grams of lye solution.
(NOT water to oil ratio - I NEVER use that because it does not make sense to me.)
 

Katie68121

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2020
Messages
77
Reaction score
144
Location
Ewa Beach
Victoria hasn't been around since July, so may not see your question. But this should not be a soft soap at all. Drying to some, perhaps, but it depends on the user's skin as some tolerate higher amounts of coconut oil in soap than others. Also some find Olive oil drying, while others do not.


Upping the SF (Super Fat) will not harden the bar soap, but make it softer, so that is not the answer to make harder soap.

Some ways to make no-palm & no-animal-fat soaps harder is to use more hard oils, such as Cocoa Butter, Mango Butter, Shea Butter, etc. Coconut oil makes hard soap, but it melts away in use faster than many other hard oils, besides its high cleansing property that leads to skin dryness if too much is used (for those who find it drying in excess.) True Olive Oil (not adulterated) makes very hard soap. Depending if you want to avoid all byproducts of living creatures (other than plants) or only the death of living animals, you can add beeswax (3%) or other waxes or stearic acid (you would need to source it from vegetable products, though & that can be difficult. (I think I found some once, but don't recall where. It's more often made from animal or palm sources.)

Other ways to harden soap: add salt; use vinegar (lye adjustment needed); add Sodium Lactate; use faux sea water as described here. Rice water (from cooked rice) lends some hardness (personal experience - not scientifically proven.)

But first, I would suggest lowering your water to lye ratio (2:1 or less, 2 being the water). With less water in your lye solution, the soap will harden up faster. With less SF, there is less unsaponified oil to soften the soap.

I use a very low SF and generally use a lye concentration of 35% or higher. Lye concentration means the amount of NaOH (or KOH if you use any) in water. 35 grams of NaOH in 100 grams of lye solution = 35% Lye Concentration. [35% Lye] In other words 35 grams of NaOH + 65 grams of water (or liquid) = 100 grams of lye solution.
(NOT water to oil ratio - I NEVER use that because it does not make sense to me.)
Thank you so much. This makes a lot of sense! ❤️
 

Katie68121

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2020
Messages
77
Reaction score
144
Location
Ewa Beach
@Katie68121 - just waving the flag for soy wax. I know you said you weren't a fan but if it's just because of the word 'wax' I wanted to make the point that it's not actually wax. I use it at 20% with 10% Shea butter and it is sufficient to make a harder/longer lasting bar.
Good to know! I tried it once and I think I remember overall it went well, but had to soap at a higher temp? I like soaping around room temp, which is usually around 80F where I live. I may give it a try again.
 
Joined
Nov 16, 2018
Messages
4,739
Reaction score
11,740
Location
Hamilton, New Zealand
Good to know! I tried it once and I think I remember overall it went well, but had to soap at a higher temp? I like soaping around room temp, which is usually around 80F where I live. I may give it a try again.
I don't usually go much lower than 36 degrees - I think that's about 90 in your language?
 
Top