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liquid soap + vinegar = shampoo?

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lenarenee

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I was asked this question today by someone who saw my bottles of liquid soap and said I should use it as shampoo. When I said the pH was too high she said add some vinegar to it and wouldn't it make shampoo? I couldn't answer the question except to say that it were that simple, somebody would have done it by now.

Blast it all.

Actually, I think this thread is more personal than that. Ever since I showed this person how to soap before Christmas, it's just about ruined soaping for me. I've made one batch of soap this year - out of obligation. Almost every cured bar of soap I had has been given away -tossing them at anyone who would take them.

So why did this ruin soaping for me? Good question. I guess because she's competitive, and instead of sharing something fun together, it became a race - she wanted to make something better than mine. Her peppermint red and white tiger stripe was great! (She used to make/decorate cakes with the same technique) And she let me know it.

I have a brand new slab mold, and tall/skinny mold I've been aching for for over a year - and they're gathering dust.

Now she's ragging on my liquid soap - my first and only batch. It's not good enough...it's gotta have scent, or color, or turned into shampoo or...etc. Geez, after 5 days of cooking and diluting the heck out of, I just love holding up the bottle and looking at it!!

Sorry for whining. I'm tired and need to go to bed.
 

Steve85569

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Adding vinegar ( acid) to your liquid soap ( base ) will cause a chemical reaction. Shampoo is detergent. Soap is soap and must be base ( alkaline) or it ceases to be soap.

The short answer is NO!

And as far as having somebody ruin your addiction to soap come on over and introduce yourself to my DW and we'll soap "just for fun".
 

KristaY

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Oh man, lenarenee. I'm sorry this so called "friend" ruined something you love to do. What a pal she turned out to be.

Steve's right, you can't add vinegar to your LS to make it shampoo. People that use KOH recipes as a shampoo use the vinegar (usually apple cider vinegar) as a rinse to help lower the pH of their hair. They also formulate the LS just for shampoo. I think you should tell her to experiment with it and see what happens. At the very least she should do all the research on formulating shampoo.

You stick with your beautiful LS and happily shower away. Ignore the bragging and focus on what you love doing ~ making good, safe soap. Pretty is dandy but good and safe win everytime. Dust off those molds and make some amazing soap!!!!
 

Arimara

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Ok... I don't know what to say. I'm in my early 30s and I'm at a point where people like the one you describe get deleted from my phone. In connection with negativity, I abhor nasty competitiveness. You anyone gets off on making you feel bad to the point where you want to stop a hobby that you enjoyed because of their nasty bragging, just spend less time with them, if you can. Don't even have coffee with them but you should tell them that you have had enough of their competitiveness and that how it upsets you. If your friend can't or won't change that part of her and calls you weak or anything along the lines, do you really need to be calling her a friend?

This is just my two cents. I just have little patience with nasty people (people with nasty habits are a differen hue).
 

newbie

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Well, I say enough of that. She may not realize how her competitiveness is getting in the way and if you can find a kind but firm way to tell her, she may be able to dial it back. If you are otherwise good enough friends or the right kind of friends, you may be able to come up with some signal/phrase/look that has some humor to it to let her know she's doing it. Sometimes just coming right out and saying it in an exasperated but not angry or mean tone can really open someone's eyes to how they are acting and it can have an impact. That's only if you are interested in preserving the relationship. If you don't have much else invested, I would just drift away from her.

You are right though. Friends should be supportive of each other. If you guys were having a friendly contest, it would be one thing but otherwise, that is the joy of sharing the hobby.

If you're in Wisconsin, let me know! I'd love to soap with you!
 

Soapmaker145

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I was asked this question today by someone who saw my bottles of liquid soap and said I should use it as shampoo. When I said the pH was too high she said add some vinegar to it and wouldn't it make shampoo? I couldn't answer the question except to say that it were that simple, somebody would have done it by now.

Sorry for whining. I'm tired and need to go to bed.
You missed a great opportunity to tell her how great it would be for her to try her idea of " liquid shampoo" and to let you know how well it works on her hair. You need to slowly distance yourself from her. She is an energy vampire. They feed on other peoples' energy and joy. They can't survive without it. Make sure to avoid using logic at all costs. She needs something to react to. Don't give it to her or she'll be back.

For as long as she insists on being competitive, you can always tell her that her work reflects "her personality" and how nice it is for her to share it with others who are willing to use her soap. When she asks, your liquid soap is as you envisioned it. You wouldn't change a thing. Soon, she'll go away. Vampires need to feed; they move on when you refuse to give them any food.

If you're not up to soaping right now, read threads and write notes for new recipes/designs/oil combinations you want to try. They'll be ready when you are.
 

DeeAnna

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Oh, boy. Lenarenee, I know how hard you worked -- for days!!! -- to get your liquid soap diluted. I'm sad that your "friend" is not able to enjoy the happy glow of this success with you. She does sound bossy and competitive, but I'd like to offer a different perspective. It may or may not fit your situation, but it might be helpful.

I have a friend who has a powerful personality, and I sometimes find her hard to be around. She has good intentions and a big heart and she is kind, loyal, and often very wise. Unfortunately, she is also a lot like my boisterous young dog Ocho. He is truly a good, funny, wonderful companion, but he doesn't always understand his muddy paws belong on the floor, not on my clean jeans. Once my friend's mind gets racing along a train of thought, especially as it pertains to what she thinks another person (me!) should do, it's hard for her to remember that maybe the other person might want to have some say in the matter. At times I've felt like I've been run over by a steam roller!

The easy answer would be for me to distance myself from her and end our friendship. I've been close to that a time or two. I've always eventually realized this would be the equivalent of giving Ocho away or being mean to him when he jumps up with muddy paws. There's a lot to like and love in my friend as well as in Ocho, and I don't want to lose that.

I started another thread in the "general chat" section a couple of weeks ago about my inability to say a clear, definite "no" when people aren't willing to hear and respect an indirect "soft no". The difficulty I have in setting clear boundaries allows others to take advantage of me sometimes. I could blame the other people for their problem, but blame is not going to make my life better in the long run. The more effective solution in the long run is for me to learn to say "no" when I need to. It's often scary for me to do this, but I feel better about myself afterwards.

That's what I do with my friend when she roars into her steam roller mode -- respectfully, lovingly, but clearly tell her "no" and tell her why. Thankfully, she listens. It might take a little bit for her to hear me, but she eventually listens. And her willingness to listen gives me yet another reason to love her.
 

TBandCW

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I was asked this question today by someone who saw my bottles of liquid soap and said I should use it as shampoo. When I said the pH was too high she said add some vinegar to it and wouldn't it make shampoo? I couldn't answer the question except to say that it were that simple, somebody would have done it by now.

Blast it all.

Actually, I think this thread is more personal than that. Ever since I showed this person how to soap before Christmas, it's just about ruined soaping for me. I've made one batch of soap this year - out of obligation. Almost every cured bar of soap I had has been given away -tossing them at anyone who would take them.

So why did this ruin soaping for me? Good question. I guess because she's competitive, and instead of sharing something fun together, it became a race - she wanted to make something better than mine. Her peppermint red and white tiger stripe was great! (She used to make/decorate cakes with the same technique) And she let me know it.

I have a brand new slab mold, and tall/skinny mold I've been aching for for over a year - and they're gathering dust.

Now she's ragging on my liquid soap - my first and only batch. It's not good enough...it's gotta have scent, or color, or turned into shampoo or...etc. Geez, after 5 days of cooking and diluting the heck out of, I just love holding up the bottle and looking at it!!

Sorry for whining. I'm tired and need to go to bed.
Ok, new day and you're going to use that new slab mold!! Pick out a recipe you've been wanting to try and go for it!
 

Seawolfe

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You've nobody to please but yourself - thats a super hard lesson to learn for me, but its true.
I'm sorry she's sucking the joy out of it. I hope you find a way to get her to stop or go away.
 

cmzaha

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No one can really cause you to stop soaping or anything for that matter but you. That said, friends can be very hard to come by and not worth losing over a little competitiveness. Tell her it looks like you taught her well. Keep in mind pretty does not mean good, and pretty does not necessarily sell good sells. She sounds quite insecure to me. If one is really a good friend you can tell them how you feel and they will still remain a friend through thick or thin. I very best friend in the world died many many years ago and I miss him to this day. No he was not a boyfriend but a true friend to our family, I could tell him when to shut his mouth and he would look at me an say okay. My hubby has a friend that always criticizes him but it is just the way it is and I tell my hubby to just put up with it. Unfortunately all our good friends are gone now and I would give anything to put up with their sarcasm, harassing etc. We all have our flaws and have to learn to put up with it. Friends are nice to have. Now get back to soaping...
 

lenarenee

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Aw geez people, I needed a couple of tissues to read your replies.

Seriously my fellow soapers, thank you all for caring - and for your words of wisdom because you all have very valid points and have helped me clarify the situation.

She is a person who always has to be right. Normally, I'm the opposite and can be comfortable being open to learning something new - but when someone comes along that HAS to be right, then that automatically makes me wrong. (And I don't respond well to that! Could you tell?)

Yesterday I knew that simply adding vinegar wouldn't make shampoo, but I couldn't explain why so she thinks she's got the idea of the century and is smarter than me. Her Christmas soap was better than mine, so she must be better at soaping.

You, my fellow soapers, reminded me that there's a difference between a soaper, and someone who makes soap. I'm a soaper - I read, learn and seek to understand the soaping process. I know a lot, and recognize there's tons I don't know.

At Christmas she used MY recipe, made all of her soap while I was there coaching her. I told her when to color, when to pour, etc. She's not a soaper. She could not replicate her success again - except through sheer luck. She doesn't have soap skills. I do.

Like one of you posted: I live my life in a manner that pleases me. It is the quality of ingredients and the end product that are most important to me. My favorite recipe is a plain jane - because nothing shows those qualities off better. I'm qualified to do almost any swirl with at least a decent success. While I appreciate those who make soaps in high art forms, I rarely aspire to do the same and I'm happy with that.

And if I were to sell, my approach would not be to market an artisan soap. I would want to bring a quality handmade soap made with as few ingredients as possible (no bht, sls, etc) to the average person. A healthy bar of soap priced right for everyone, not just those lucky ones who can afford a $6.00+ artisan bar.
(Thanks to Fannie and Flo's organic lard and tallow.)

I've blathered on enough. Once again, thank you all.
 

dixiedragon

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Your friend sounds obnoxious. More like a frenemy. Maybe flat-out say, "You know, Friend, I spent hours of time and plenty of money on ingredients to help you make that Christmas soap. And now you're going to trash my soap? That's not okay. I think I need to take a break from you." And take a break from her.

And don't put yourself out there for her again. If she makes noise about you helping her make soap, bake, knit, churn butter, rebuild a V8 engine, etc, you respond, "You're so smart, I bet you can do it better than anybody!"

Or you could skip all that, smile, and oh-so-sweetly say, "Well, bless your heart."
 

TeresaT

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I agree with Carolyn, she sounds insecure. It was kind of you to teach her how to make soap. However, you shouldn't let her negativity impact something you love to do. YOU know the truth. You've taken the time, and made the effort, to educate yourself through research, trial and, I'm sure, some failures. She had you to hold her hand and tell her when to mix and when to pour. The only reason her soap was a success is because of YOU!! She got lucky because she could decorate cakes and that's a cross-over talent. Where would she have been if she had to do the research? Forget her. She can go pee in the wind! Get your new molds out, pick a recipe you haven't tried yet and lose yourself in the experience. The surest way to fail is not to try. Please don't not try.
 

lenarenee

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I put a note in the challenge thread saying we're waiting for you, Lena! Excellent suggestion, Arimara. Nothing like a bunch of forum friends to cheer you up.
Oh I saw that - what a bunch of unrepentant enablers y'all are.
(I might have the house all to myself for several hours tomorrow. Just saying...)
 

IrishLass

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Right here, silly!
She had you to hold her hand and tell her when to mix and when to pour. The only reason her soap was a success is because of YOU!! She got lucky because she could decorate cakes and that's a cross-over talent. Where would she have been if she had to do the research?
Exactly! :thumbup:


IrishLass :)
 

cmzaha

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Exactly! :thumbup:


IrishLass :)
Yep, I am another one that just does swirls and not a bunch of real fancy. For me piped, frosted etc do not sell, but pretty swirls will and so does downright uglies :).

Sounds like you need to get busy with whipped soap!
 

lenarenee

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Thought I'd update this since so many of you offered your wisdom and encouragement.

It worked! There's a dining table full of curing soap to prove it. (Somebody really ought to move it upsairs)

I just couldn't let one selfish comment ruin what I enoyed. And my critic (luckily she's not really a friend) had the chance to test my resolve lately when she saw me preparing to make salt bars, and then was back 3 hours later to find me cutting them.

The conversation went like this, keep in mind she doesn't know what a salt bar is.

Her: I can't believe you're still not done making soap. We didn't take this long when I made Christmas soap with you...told you i was more organized smirk, smirk, smirk, gloat, gloat, gloat. Wait....what? (Jaw drops) you're cutting it already??? Mine took 2 days to cut, yours took 2 hours!!!

Me: I gave you a beginner recipe. This is a technique for more advanced soapers. Would you like to borrow my Scientific Soapmaking book?

End of conversation. But no, she didn't want to borrow the book.
 

DeeAnna

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Nicely done, Lenarenee! I'm laughing at how neatly you turned the tables ... and I'm glad for you that you were able to do it in a kind way. That's got to feel really good. Kudos!!!!
 
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