Liquid Soap - still zapping after 24hr

[reeeen4]

So yesterday I thought I'd try my hand at making liquid soap, I used a modified version of IrishLass's Creamy Cocoa/Shea GLS, I tired using a cooking method I saw online using my hand mixer to keep mixing in the slow cooker till it reached the thick toffee phase, mine never made it past thick emulsion sadly it just seemed to not want to progress and my mixers got too hot to handle so I had to stop. So I just turned off the slow cooker and left it sit overnight. I started making the LS at 12pm and now almost 24 hours later I just did the zap test and it is still stinging my tongue. I don't really know what went wrong, anyone got any advice? can I fix it? do I keep cooking it or wait longer?

Recipe used
35% Coconut Oil, 76 deg - 175.00g
30% Castor Oil - 150.00g
20% Cocoa Butter - 100.00g
15% Olive Oil - 75.00g
25% Lye Concentration - 100.34g
Glycerine 301.03
5% superfat

(later I found out my KOH is 92% pure so I should have added another 11g)

 

[Zany_in_CO]

The first rule of soapmaking is: PATIENCE.
If you give it time, soap will continue to do its thing. It may take another day or two or three, but you don't need to do a thing... except maybe hope & pray! LOL Which is what I do at times.

I can't help you with that recipe -- I've never made it -- hopefully Irish Lass will be along eventually to help you figure it out.

 

[reeeen4]

So it looks like the zap test doesn't work for me, I went out and bought some ph test strip papers and this is what they show

To make sure it was accurate I mixed up some KOH and water

So looks like my liquid soap is all good to go which is great because I really did not want to throw it out it looks awesome!

Are there any down sides to adding mica to liquid soap?

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Unfortunately, testing your LS with pH strips is not the same thing as using the Zap Test (which I personally deplore) to see if your soap is fully saponified before diluting it. This is a common mistake that LS first-timers make. If you dilute your soap before it's finished saponification it's highly likely that a white film will appear on the surface or as sediment on the bottom after the 2-week sequester period. (PS: IMHO and IME, in the case of IL's recipe, this is less likely to happen because of the additives she uses and the inclusion of glycerin as part of the water amount.)Here's a link to learn more:
http://alaiynab.blogspot.com/search/label/tutorial

Are there any down sides to adding mica to liquid soap?

Excellent question! Mica is not the best option as it settles to the bottom over time. I use regular ole food coloring for the variety of colors I can get -- esp. from McCormick's Neon Colors -- the blending options on the back of the box are fab -- i.e. "Stormy Weather" can be tweaked to a sky blue. I'd recommend starting with food coloring, just for fun while you're experimenting. Others have said that the color fades over time but I haven't experienced that. Here's a link to learn about coloring liquid soap. Scroll down about 2/3rds of the page.

http://alaiynab.blogspot.com/2014/07/basic-beginner-liquid-soap-and.html#more

 

[Zany_in_CO]

...never made it past thick emulsion sadly it just seemed to not want to progress and my mixers got too hot to handle so I had to stop.

Whether using a hand mixer or a stick (immersion) blender, it's best to mix on & off so you don't burn out the motor. Start with 2-3 minutes of continuous blending at first, then rest. The batch may separate while resting but comes back together again once you start mixing again. Note: depending on your formula, and IME, it takes from 12-15 minutes for a balanced recipe to reach trace or up to 45 minutes (or longer) for 100% olive oil castile. It helps to keep the heat source around 160°F while bringing to trace.

Note: If done correctly, Carrie's GLS takes all of 2 minutes to go through all the stages of becoming soap! Wait one hour before testing with phenolphthaline drops or soap-in-water method and you're there. How cool is that?! Warning: This is an advanced technique that requires extreme care because the glycerin is at 210°F+ when added to the 160°F oils. Also note that Carrie's SB has a plastic shaft. If you don't want it to melt, use an SB with a stainless steel shaft.

Turning your slow cooker off and letting it rest overnight was a good call! "PATIENCE" is the first rule of soaping; the second rule is "DON'T PANIC!" LOL Whatever happens, take a breath or two or three, and trust your own good judgment to think it through. More often than not you'll come up with a solution.

So. At that point, if the soap zaps in the morning, you can do one of two things -- let it sit, covered, for several days or a week even, or you can heat up the slow cooker and cook it longer. Both of these methods will bring the desired results of fully saponified soap -- aka Zap Free.

HTH and Keep up the good work!

 

[reeeen4]

Ah ok will see how this one goes and see if the mica settles to the bottom. I manage to dilute it to a nice thick honey like consistency but had to use a stick blender to get the lumps out so hopefully the bubbles clear in a day or two.

Strange, I thought I had done everything right I had even heated up the glycerine on the stove and cooked the KOH until it went clear in the glycerine then pured it into my oils. Maybe having the mica in at the beggining effected it. Might try it again and add the mica at the end this time. I was stick blending mine at the beggining with the slow cooker on low the whole time the oils and eveything was very hot the whole time I was stick blending but almost an hour later all I'd achived was a thick trace. It seems to have done it's thing being left alone and I tried using it and I'm getting some nice bubbles so it all worked out in the end. Annoying though that my slow cooker has been on my bench for 3 days. Oh well I've learnt alot next time will be better!

Thanks @Zany_in_CO for all your help

 

[Zany_in_CO]

You're welcome, reeeen4.

ETA: I just took a look at your recipe and I see a few problems -- actually, I thought IL would come along and help you.

Recipe used
35% Coconut Oil, 76 deg - 175.00g
30% Castor Oil - 150.00g
20% Cocoa Butter - 100.00g
15% Olive Oil - 75.00g
25% Lye Concentration - 100.34g
Glycerine 301.03
5% superfat

RE: Cocoa Butter - Have a look at "What to Expect From Various Oils in LS" linked below. (Keep in mind it's just "guidelines" for creating clear liquid soap, not hard & fast Rules.)
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/what-to-expect-from-various-oils-in-ls.62864/

RE: Lye Concentration: Figure the amount of KOH you need and then use a factor of 3 X KOH = the amount of water required. (I do this by hand.) In some cases, you can use 2 X KOH, but you may get a BIG surprise when the batch starts bloating up and out of the pot.

RE: Superfat/Lye Discount: 0%-3% is recommended. You don't want any excess oil floating around in your soap.

TIP: Make small batches to start with. 12 oz oils will yield approx. 16 oz soap. Plenty to divide into 4 portions to experiment with.

DILUTION: (1) Use 40% soap to 60% water for LS that is high in Coconut Oil. Don't be afraid of using too much CO. It's not drying at all. I use 100% coconut oil to make laundry soap and, if I run out of my fave, I use that to put in my foamers. It's fine.
(2) Use 15-20% soap to 85-80% water for LS that is 100% Olive Oil. This results in thin soap but it lathers up wonderfully. Use salt brine to thicken.
(3) Most LS formulas, like yours, will fall somewhere in between. Then it's a judgment call to know how much dilution water to add. This is one of the experiments I did with the 4 portions of soap I mentioned above. It's a good way to find out the ratio of soap:water for every batch you make. TAKE GOOD NOTES.

Most slow cookers are too small to accommodate all the water necessary to dilute a normal batch of LS. I do it in a stainless steel pot on top of the stove. Takes 3-4 hours at LOW to MED LOW heat. Avoid using a SB to break up clumps. Creates too much foam. They will dissolve eventually. But we'll save that discussion for next time.

HTH

 

[IrishLass]

ETA: I just took a look at your recipe and I see a few problems -- actually, I thought IL would come along and help you.

RE: Cocoa Butter - Have a look at "What to Expect From Various Oils in LS" linked below. (Keep in mind it's just "guidelines" for creating clear liquid soap, not hard & fast Rules.)
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/what-to-expect-from-various-oils-in-ls.62864/

There should actually be no problem with the cocoa butter in this particular formula, since the end objective is to end up with an opaque, creamy soap.....unless, that is, neeeen4 expected a clear soap, which is clearly stated in my tutorial that the soap will not be clear.

RE: Lye Concentration:

Figure the amount of KOH you need and then use a factor of 3 X KOH = the amount of water required. (I do this by hand.) In some cases, you can use 2 X KOH, but you may get a BIG surprise when the batch starts bloating up and out of the pot.

Zany- I'm not sure why you tagged the lye concentration as being a problem? A 25% lye concentration is the same as KOH x 3.

RE: Superfat/Lye Discount:

0%-3% is recommended. You don't want any excess oil floating around in your soap.

If neeen4 follows my tutorial to the end, the superfat will actually be closer to 7% when all is said and done. The additives I use in my tutorial prevent any precipitation of oils out of the main body of liquid soap.

Neeen4- although you already learned this the hard way, always make your paste with just the necessities-, i.e. KOH, water (or milk), glycerin and oils/fats. Save all the rest of your additives for dilution time.


Edited to add...there's no need to cook your soap or stickblend it to the taffy stage. I take a totally laissez-faire approach to reach the paste stage, for which my stick-blender thanks me. I just whisk to emulsification, cover and walk away (leaving the pot completely off the heat). Within 6 hours I have paste and didn't have to do a thing.

IrishLass

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I can't help you with that recipe -- I've never made it -- hopefully Irish Lass will be along eventually to help you figure it out.

YAY! Irish showed up! I'm so glad... FYI There are as many ways to make LS as there are LS-ers so don't be surprised if you get conflicting info. I'm Old School -- I like clear soap vs. IL "cutting edge". I'll bow out now.

@IrishLass FYI, I use 3 X KOH because a long time ago (2004-2005?) ... when I first discovered that Catherine Failor's recipes fit that factor, I began using it on the Liquid Soapers Yahoo Group; versus places like MMS's recipes that used 2 X KOH. Just habit.