liquid soap etc workshop in Manhattan

[CTAnton]

168 dollars for 3 and a half hours....I'm wondering if I should make the trip and go although a voice tells me I could just as easily go through the archives on this forum . You do get a couple of recipes and some take home products. And a list of suppliers which I probably already know.From what they're saying in their advertising it seems there's a fair amount of time getting over your fear of lye and all that sort of topics. Any thoughts?

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I would say that you can save the money. There are the two very good methods here by irishlass and Susie, and you already know all the other stuff

 

[ngian]

Is there any link for this workshop? (if it is allowed by the forum rules). How many people can attend this at the same date?

It seems to me very expensive. I'm also planning to start teaching soapmaking by September (cold process of bar [NaOH] and liquid soap [KOH]) and the shop that will organise these seminars will charge every attendant 80E for 12 hours (3 hours per 4 days).

But here is the Greek market with the financial difficulties we all face the last few years...

 

[Arimara]

That's not a bad price for Manhattan to be honest but it is as you say. If you're in Connecticut, wouldn't you wind up paying some tolls along the way? You know how the tolls are for the area will drive up the price so I wouldn't make the trip unless you really make it worth your while (ie stay a little bit and have a nice dinner some where).

Ultimately, the choice is yours. I really don't think it's a bad deal but how long will you be in the city to make that money worth spending?

 

[IrishLass]

Seeing as how it sounds like most of the time will be spent on getting over the fear of working with lye, I personally would save the money and put it towards buying liquid soap-making supplies instead, especially seeing as how there are more than enough LS recipes, as well as available 24-hour advice (100% freely offered by all of our wonderful members), right here on the forum than you could ever possibly shake a stick at.


IrishLass

 

[CTAnton]

IL...Seeing as how it sounds like most of the time will be spent on getting over the fear of working with lye, I personally would save the money and put it towards buying liquid soap-making supplies instead, especially seeing as how there are more than enough LS recipes, as well as available 24-hour advice (100% freely offered by all of our wonderful members), right here on the forum than you could ever possibly shake a stick at.
That's what I'm going to do...or should I say, did! Ordered a bunch of foaming soap dispensers to give to my testers , I would have tried a recipe or 2 today but between moving the sprinkler constantly and bringing down my core temperature throughout the day(like anyone needs an excuse to eat ice cream!) I think I'll save round 1 for another day...many thanks to you all for providing a window onto a wonderful hobby!

 

[lenarenee]

Sounds like you've made your decision; but another factor to consider is what kind of liquid soap would they teach - the hard one that involves neutralizing the excess lye, or the easy glycerin method?

 

[Arimara]

Sounds like you've made your decision; but another factor to consider is what kind of liquid soap would they teach - the hard one that involves neutralizing the excess lye, or the easy glycerin method?

I really have to try glycerin sometime. I just keep forgetting and using water. Does it trace somewhat fast?

 

[DeeAnna]

If you add glycerin, yes, the soap batter will emulsify a little quicker. I don't think it takes much glycerin to get a lot of that benefit. I've used 2 parts water and 1 part glycerin as my "water" and I thought this ratio worked almost as well as using 1 part water and 2 parts glycerin. When I did the same recipe with all water, the soap batter didn't form a stable emulsion as quickly.

 

[topofmurrayhill]

Sounds like you've made your decision; but another factor to consider is what kind of liquid soap would they teach - the hard one that involves neutralizing the excess lye, or the easy glycerin method?

You actually don't have to neutralize whether you use glycerin or not. Either way you can do a 0% to 3% lye discount and use the soap as it is. Even the recipes in the Failor LS book are actually 0% superfat using KOH of average moisture content, so they would be usable with no neutralization as written.

Using glycerin for some or most of the initial liquid helps to create the soap paste more quickly and easily. Beyond some initial emulsification, it can work on autopilot.

If you feel like a mad scientist one day, you can replace some of the glycerin with propylene glycol. It can then go almost magically from clear liquid to clear paste in record time. You might think you are still looking at liquid until you realize you can turn the pot upside down and it won't move.

 

[lenarenee]

You actually don't have to neutralize whether you use glycerin or not. Either way you can do a 0% to 3% lye discount and use the soap as it is. Even the recipes in the Failor LS book are actually 0% superfat using KOH of average moisture content, so they would be usable with no neutralization as written.

Using glycerin for some or most of the initial liquid helps to create the soap paste more quickly and easily. Beyond some initial emulsification, it can work on autopilot.

If you feel like a mad scientist one day, you can replace some of the glycerin with propylene glycol. It can then go almost magically from clear liquid to clear paste in record time. You might think you are still looking at liquid until you realize you can turn the pot upside down and it won't move.

Good to know. Now, have I just completely missed the info about not needing to neutralize non glycerin soap, or is this something that many people don't know yet?
I've never read the Failor book; just didn't have enough interest in ls until I was gifted gallons of Costco oo and had an aging bottle of koh in the cabinet. The gls thread earlier with year with the pics of golden gls soap had me sold.

 

[GeezLouise]

About 8 years ago I took basketmaking classes in Washington state for about $170 for 2 days, 8 hours a day, lots of instructor interaction, she supplied tools and willow, and go home with something useful and maybe even beautiful if students were studious. Just a data point for you.

 

[topofmurrayhill]

Good to know. Now, have I just completely missed the info about not needing to neutralize non glycerin soap, or is this something that many people don't know yet?

Well...sometimes it gets cast in terms of the Failor method versus the glycerin method, which can make it sound like 'neutralization or not' is connected with 'water versus glycerin'. So people may think of it that way, but those 2 issues have always been separate.

You would only need to neutralize if you calculate a negative lye discount -- an excess of KOH. What people usually do now is no lye discount or 3% max -- so no neutralization. Even though Failor says there should be a lye excess to neutralize, it appears she wasn't actually doing that. Based on the typical 90% purity of KOH, which she didn't take account of, the recipes in Failor's book are calculated with a 0% lye discount and can be used as they are. "Neutralizing" would actually be adding a superfat by lowering the pH.

Then there's the issue of the liquid. Classically you use water, but it's become popular to use glycerin, which facilitates saponification. You actually should use both. The minimum water amount is the KOH weight, to dissolve the caustic. You can combine water and glycerin to create a 25% solution of KOH. If you're making a recipe that calls for more glycerin than that and you want to make it exactly, you can add more glycerin to make a 20% solution. That works fine.

The reason for using both glycerin and water is that it's easy and safe. Using just glycerin takes longer to dissolve the caustic, it can bubble over, and it has to be heated almost to frying temps.

As I mentioned, there are other solvents you can try with in addition to glycerin if you get in an experimental mood.