licorice in soap

[KarenDK]

In the back of one of my shelfs I found old Some Licorice root extract from my candy making days. Off cause I had to try and soap with it. I found i like the colour and the smell it adds to the soap. I like it combined with peppermint and i like it with anise. Link to the Danish product;
https://www.urtegaarden.dk/lakridsekstrakt-78802001
So I decided to educate myself and ended up completely confused. What i was seeking, was information about safe usage rate, how the licorice effekt the soaps shelflife and the like,
I tried to translate the name to english to make a search an found products like:
https://www.newdirectionsaromatics....extracts/licorice-root-botanical-extract.html
Where the danish product is supposed to be used as an ingredient in fooditems, the MSDS for the other product tells me, that it may be harmfull if swallowed. This makes me daubt my translation.
I have found other people using licorice in soap, but I have not found the information I am seeking.
Can you guys help me? I will be gratefull for any knowlegde, experience or educated guess you can share with me.

 

[DeeAnna]

One difference is New Directions is not in the business of selling ingredients that are approved for use in food, so the company needs to discourage people from thinking otherwise. Their ingredients might not be tested to prove they are food safe, even if they really are fine. To give an example, clear water in a clean jar might be perfectly safe for drinking or it might not. Unless you test it to make sure, you cannot tell just by looking at it.

The MSDS is for use in emergencies. It is going to explain the consequences of an exposure that might happen in an emergency, not about normal use of an ingredient as it is used in food and other products. Water, for example, is safe to drink in reasonable amounts, but it can kill you if you fall into a pond and cannot swim. The MSDS information will be based on falling into the pond, not drinking normal amounts of water.

As far as the use of licorice root in soap ... I don't have a clue. Maybe someone else can help you. Here's a short thread that might give you an idea: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=23263

And here are a few more on SMF: https://www.google.com/search?q=licorice+extract+powder+soap+site:soapmakingforum.com

 

[BaBa]

Licorice is actually plenty of tanins. It has strong antioxidant properties as an extract. However, I may not have a great interest in soap since its main ingredient, glycyrrhizic acid (always struggle with the spelling of this one), will be neutralized by the lye. Maybe this still have some effect as sodium glycyrrizate (?) as well as sodium citrate, sodium lactate or sodium acetate. All flavonoïds will also react with lye. I don't have a backround in chemistry strong enough to tell if properties will be kept in soap or not. I would just try to figure out how much lye will be neutralized by the acid as an estimative, but without titration of your extract, it would be very difficult to know actual proportions of glycyrrhizic acid in your solution.

Licorice has powerful — and undesired — effects on heart and digestion. That's why it's a bit hazardous when ingested in a certain quantity of infusion or too regularly, especially when you're taking certain types of medicine. In topical applications it does not seem to have any counter indication, and it has some brightening effects, as well as antiseptic.

I personally quite liked the scent it gave in soaps I made and I don't see what could be hazardous using licorice in topical applications except a reasonable risk of allergy (as with any botanical). Just keep in mind it can eventually give you a bit more superfat.

I hope this message will answer your questions!

 

[KarenDK]

One difference is New Directions is not in the business of selling ingredients that are approved for use in food, so the company needs to discourage people from thinking otherwise. Their ingredients might not be tested to prove they are food safe, even if they really are fine. To give an example, clear water in a clean jar might be perfectly safe for drinking or it might not. Unless you test it to make sure, you cannot tell just by looking at it.

The MSDS is for use in emergencies. It is going to explain the consequences of an exposure that might happen in an emergency, not about normal use of an ingredient as it is used in food and other products. Water, for example, is safe to drink in reasonable amounts, but it can kill you if you fall into a pond and cannot swim. The MSDS information will be based on falling into the pond, not drinking normal amounts of water.

Thank you for that well thougt out and very easily understod picture. I think that will stay with me as an understanding model of MSDS from now on.

As far as the use of licorice root in soap ... I don't have a clue. Maybe someone else can help you. Here's a short thread that might give you an idea: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=23263

And here are a few more on SMF: https://www.google.com/search?q=licorice+extract+powder+soap+site:soapmakingforum.com

Thank you. I will look into them.

 

[Kittish]

Gah for posting before coffee. Didn't even see I was late to the party.

The botanical name for the plant is Glycyrrhiza glabra. It doesn't look like there are any specific restrictions on use, and no allergy or sensitivity warnings that I could find.

I'd lay long odds that the only reason the MSDS you looked at says not to ingest is that the manufacturing standards for cosmetics are not nearly so strict as those for food, and you're looking at a cosmetics/beauty supplier rather than food products. They're covering their own behinds by saying "don't eat this!"

 

[KarenDK]

Thank you for your answer BaBA
I am not sure I have understood it compleately I have never even heard about glycyrrhizic acid before. I will break it up in small parts, and hope you have patience with me.

Licorice is actually plenty of tanins. It has strong antioxidant properties as an extract. However, I may not have a great interest in soap since its main ingredient, glycyrrhizic acid (always struggle with the spelling of this one), will be neutralized by the lye.

If I understand you correctly, you tell me, that licerice has antioxidant properties, that one could assume would prolong the shelflife of soap. Howerver these properties are destryed by the reaction with lye, so dont apply to the final product.

Maybe this still have some effect as sodium glycyrrizate (?) as well as sodium citrate, sodium lactate or sodium acetate.

These are the salts stemming from the saponification of glycyrrhizic acid?

All flavonoïds will also react with lye. I don't have a backround in chemistry strong enough to tell if properties will be kept in soap or not.

I am way ower my head, but can one not assume, that some is left, when the smell stayes?

I would just try to figure out how much lye will be neutralized by the acid as an estimative, but without titration of your extract, it would be very difficult to know actual proportions of glycyrrhizic acid in your solution.

As long as the usage rate is a few grams pr. kilo, do you not think it would be fair to estimate that the change in superfat stays within a percentage or two? This is based on the assumptions, that the glycyrrhizic acid has an density somewhat eqal to the density of the fatty acids, and that it represents a substatial part of the Licerice powder. I have no Idea if thease assumptions are true.

Licorice has powerful — and undesired — effect on heart and digestion. That's why it's a bit hazardous when ingested in a certain quantity of infusion or too regularly, especially when you're taking certain types of medicine.

As part of a licerice munching nation, this surprices me. Normally moderation in ingestion is only recommended in cases, where ammonium chloride is added to the mix :think:.

In topical applications it does not seem to have any counter indication, and it has some brightening effects, as well as antiseptic.

Thank you for that information.

I personally quite liked the scent it gave in soaps I made and I don't see what could be hazardous using licorice in topical applications except a reasonable risk of allergy (as with any botanical). Just keep in mind it can eventually give you a bit more superfat.

I hope this message will answer your questions!

It answerd many of my qustions, and as you can see left me with many, many more.

 

[KarenDK]

The botanical name for the plant is Glycyrrhiza glabra. It doesn't look like there are any specific restrictions on use, and no allergy or sensitivity warnings that I could find.

Thank you for taking the time to look things up for me. I hope you do not mind me asking, where you look for the information?

 

[Kittish]

Thank you for taking the time to look things up for me. I hope you do not mind me asking, where you look for the information?

Short answer: Google.

Longer answer:
It's a multi-stage process for me. In this case, I did a google search first on licorice root to get the botanical name. Then I searched the botanical name, and started opening returns that looked like they might have useful information. I often check as many as a dozen different results on searches, even going past the first page. You'd be amazed how many times I've actually found the information I was actually looking for not on the first page of results at all, but on the second or third page in.

As I'm looking through the sites I chose, I'm comparing information and, where applicable/possible, checking cited sources. It's pretty easy to catch when sites are just quoting each other this way, the phrasing remains identical or nearly so most of the time. Those sites get lower weighting as far as reliability of their information. Good sources that actually do back up the information presented get a higher weighting.