Lessons not learned. What do you do when your batter seizes? do some FO's react poorly with ground oatmeal?

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akseattle

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What do you do when your batter seizes?
What will be the impact of all this water?
and, do some FO's react poorly with ground oatmeal?

Well, it looks like I haven’t learned my lesson(s).

The lessons being 1) to try to go with the flow instead of trying to force batter to do what I wanted it to do, when it’s clear it wants to do something else. 2) when my batter seizes, just smash in it!! 3) look at my journal from time to time to refresh my memory!!! 4) give thought to ALL additives, don’t be casual about ANY!!

I made a Hazelnut Coffee and Vanilla Sugar batch (blend of FO’s) with ground oatmeal (not colloidal oats) and espresso grounds this weekend. I thought I’d do a 3 color swirl. Adding ground oatmeal to part 1 that had no colorant was a decision made on the fly.

I had tested this Hazelnut Coffee FO on one single cavity bar. It seemed uneventful. Later, it occurred to me I hadn’t done a test batch of the vanilla sugar FO

Things were going slowly and swimmingly with my high lard & tallow recipe. I divided it into 3 parts, added espresso grinds to 2 of the parts, added colorants to those 2 parts, hand stirred. All was still good. Then, I decided to add finely ground oatmeal (not colloidal) to uncolored part 1. I hand stirred that and then divided the FO blend evenly between the 3 parts.

I had barely added the last drop of FO when the oatmeal part began to thicken and swell right in front of my eyes. I considered just scooping it into the mold but it was very grainy and like swelled- up baby cereal. I wasn’t sure if it had saponified. But, it got pretty rock hard. So, no scooping was possible.

I couldn’t say for sure, but I thought I read a thread in the last couple months where someone’s batter had done this and someone said add a little water, stir, and it will smooth out. So, I quick boiled some water in the microwave. I added water and stirred by hand until I’d added about ¼ cup. It wasn’t smooth but at least I could move it around (think of a butter, sugar & egg mixture before it's beaten to smooth and creamy... except brown.) It took kind of a while and I noticed the other two parts were looking like they were starting to swell. I started to stir them by hand and they also started to seize. Basically, I spend about one hour stirring and adding water to each part. I finally got it all (a rare, big-for- me 1000 gram batch) into a mold. I put it on a heating pad and about 30 minutes later, decided to peak at it.

It was pretty squishy (as it was when I smashed it in). If I pushed on one side, it rose up on the other side…. I dug into it and saw their were syrupy, liquid rivers in there. So, I took it back out of the mold and put it back into the bowl and hand kneaded it just like you would a cookie dough. When the syrupy rivers seemed to be incorporated, I smashed it back into the mold. Put it back on a 1 hour timed heating pad, covered it and about 20 hours later, I cut it.

It was wet, but it actually sliced really easily; except that little wet, crumbly pieces fell off.

It looks quite a bit like a really lardy meatloaf. I gathered the crumbly pieces and rolled them into a ball. I’ve put the sliced soap into a wooden crate where I cure my soaps. I’m not going to look at them again until I need to make room for another batch…

I looked at my journal today (at batch #6- coffee and vanilla loaf with expresso grounds). That batch had accelerated and I noted that many soapers on forums had warned about coffee FO’s accelerating. One review for the Vanilla Sugar FO says it seized in CP. It’s so rare that I don’t test an FO before making a whole batch, I regret I didn’t go back to read my notes on the FO I hadn’t tested.

But, what I’m wondering is: Other than to turn my soap into a not so great looking meatloaf, what is the effect of all that water (I’m sure I added at least one whole cup) in my batter? The bars were pretty much sticking together when I put them in the crate, but I wonder it if they will get really crumbly as they dry out? I used a 40% lye concentration and 5% superfat. If it does not zap (I’m in no hurry to look at or zap this batch…) can I assume that it is safe to use?

Unless it turns out to feel absolutely amazing when I finally get around to testing it ( in a couple months), I think I will give it to a shelter – it actually smells fine. I don’t know if the fragrance will evaporate away with the extra water?

What do other do when your soap seizes?

Do some FO's react poorly with oatmeal?
It seems that the 1 part with the ground oats seized the worst. Same batter, same FO. No coffee grounds. I added 2 heaping teaspoons of ground oatmeal to 455 grams of batter.
Was this just too much on the high side? I used only a rounded teaspoon of expresso grounds in each of the other 455 gram parts.

I feel like I should have had a better plan.
 

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There are two "rescue" actions possible:

1. Cover and wait for it to go into gel phase (usually 10-15 minutes), and it will become stir-able to the point that you can semi-pour, semi-spoon it into the mold. NOTE: this doesn't work for all recipes, since not all of them get hot enough to gel. Putting the soap pot on a heating pad can help.

2. Quickly toss everything into a crockpot or a stainless pot on a stove burner. Add enough heat to force gel, then quickly stir and get it into the mold.

I have had batches that seized so hard that no amount of heat would bring them back. Those were mashed into the mold and then later shredded for ciaglia or rebatch. And the FO bottle got a BIG label on it to warn me not to do that again.

As for the oatmeal issue, I don't think it is reacting with the FO, so much as absorbing lots of water. With less water, the soap hardens faster. That's true even for batches that aren't seizing, and it is one reason I love soaping with low water/high lye concentration. My soaps are ready to unmold and cut so much earlier than when I used more water/lower lye concentration. But of course, not so great when you are trying to keep a fluid batter while using water-absorbing additives. Choices, choices. ;)
 
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@AliOop , wow! Thank you!!
As I think about it, when I peeked at it after it had been on the heating pad for about 1/2 hour, and it had like a syrupy, liquid rivers in there, I bet it was actually starting to go through the gel phase- some parts faster than others. Probably if I had just put each third on the heating pad right away, each third in its own separate mold, it may very well have gone through gel evenly and maybe I could have at that point poured them into one mold. Although I hope I won't have another batch seize soon, I'm going to remember this!!!
As to the oatmeal, that makes sense that it absorbed more water than the coffee grounds and that this is why it seized so much faster.
Well, I'm definitely not combining oatmeal and either of these two fragrances again!
I need to back up and do a test bar of the Vanilla Sugar FO by itself. I really do try to do a single cavity test of new fragrances. Although, I have alot of new fragrances I haven't yet tried.... The testing process is pretty slow. It's hard to dedicate that time to just testing. But, I guess the possible punishment for not doing so is a giant batch of seized soap 😢
Thanks again!
 
I had a recipe seize up so bad I threw away the whole bowl too! I literally had to boil hot water to clean up my stick blender. I will never again add toooooo much beeswax! LOL...Now it's funny but it wasn't at the time. Sigh~

I honestly learn from everything. Life is a learning experience. 🐝 💚💜😂
 
@melinda48, since i frequently boil tea water in the microwave oven, I thought I'd search the internet to see if there is a consensus on the safety of doing this.

There are some differing opinions but generally, I don't think its the glass that might burst, it's the WATER itself that might erupt.

Generally, when you boil water in the microwave oven, it heats unevenly, with pockets of hot water surrounded by cool layers. So, in some instances, this can cause the water itself to erupt or splash up when moved. So, the safety issue of boiling water in glass (or in anything) in the micro is a little different than the safety issue of using a glass vessel to mix your lye and water, which I stopped doing after reading about it on this site.

Below is a link to uccellodesigns. They say NEVER boil water in glass in the micro (or in anything.) But they sell teapots.

https://uccellodesigns.com/blog/never-boil-water-in-a-microwave/
 
I've also had glass shatter in the micro. Tempered one is okay though. It gets heated by the liquid inside and needs to withstand rapid temp changes
 
I read through the SNOPES. I thought that it seemed to say that it is the WATER that can superheat and explode, not that the glass itself explodes.

I have had glass crack when subjected to a very quick change in temperature, I had my very favorite and beautiful glass pitcher crack when I took it straight from the fridge and after pouring out some small contents, ran hot water from the faucet directly into the extremely cold pitcher. It was sad to see it crack right before my eyes. But, that wasn't an explosion.. More like stress fractures. I can't remember if I actually heard the tinkling of the cracks /fractures forming.

The SNOPES article says that the glass cup does not heat up in the micro, thus not helping the heat bubbles to pop. But, I can't say that I've ever had the glass mug or glass not heat up even a little. I have found that thick, but lightweight, ceramic heats up the most. Heavier but thinner ceramic is less apt to heat such that you can't touch it without a pot holder. So, I like to use heavier , but thinner ceramic/ glass mugs.

I probably wouldn't put a thin glass glass in the micro. Just seems like its asking to overheat.

@melinda48 , thanks for the SNOPES article. It has been several years (2007 - 2010) since I used it for fact checking. I had forgotten about that great resource!
 
I read through the SNOPES. I thought that it seemed to say that it is the WATER that can superheat and explode, not that the glass itself explodes.

I have had glass crack when subjected to a very quick change in temperature, I had my very favorite and beautiful glass pitcher crack when I took it straight from the fridge and after pouring out some small contents, ran hot water from the faucet directly into the extremely cold pitcher. It was sad to see it crack right before my eyes. But, that wasn't an explosion.. More like stress fractures. I can't remember if I actually heard the tinkling of the cracks /fractures forming.

The SNOPES article says that the glass cup does not heat up in the micro, thus not helping the heat bubbles to pop. But, I can't say that I've ever had the glass mug or glass not heat up even a little. I have found that thick, but lightweight, ceramic heats up the most. Heavier but thinner ceramic is less apt to heat such that you can't touch it without a pot holder. So, I like to use heavier , but thinner ceramic/ glass mugs.

I probably wouldn't put a thin glass glass in the micro. Just seems like its asking to overheat.

@melinda48 , thanks for the SNOPES article. It has been several years (2007 - 2010) since I used it for fact checking. I had forgotten about that great resource!

Oh, mine definitely didn't explode (like, no glass was shot into all corners of the micro or anything like that). More like it just broke with a loud enough cracking sound
 
I read through the SNOPES. I thought that it seemed to say that it is the WATER that can superheat and explode, not that the glass itself explodes.

I have had glass crack when subjected to a very quick change in temperature, I had my very favorite and beautiful glass pitcher crack when I took it straight from the fridge and after pouring out some small contents, ran hot water from the faucet directly into the extremely cold pitcher. It was sad to see it crack right before my eyes. But, that wasn't an explosion.. More like stress fractures. I can't remember if I actually heard the tinkling of the cracks /fractures forming.

The SNOPES article says that the glass cup does not heat up in the micro, thus not helping the heat bubbles to pop. But, I can't say that I've ever had the glass mug or glass not heat up even a little. I have found that thick, but lightweight, ceramic heats up the most. Heavier but thinner ceramic is less apt to heat such that you can't touch it without a pot holder. So, I like to use heavier , but thinner ceramic/ glass mugs.

I probably wouldn't put a thin glass glass in the micro. Just seems like its asking to overheat.

@melinda48 , thanks for the SNOPES article. It has been several years (2007 - 2010) since I used it for fact checking. I had forgotten about that great resource!
I used a Pyrex pitcher to heat water. Took it out of my microwave and it exploded. I will never again use glass to heat liquid in my microwave - period.

I've also had glass shatter in the micro. Tempered one is okay though. It gets heated by the liquid inside and needs to withstand rapid temp changes
Nope - even “tempered” glass vessels can explode.
 
@melinda48 ,
The lyric " i swear there ain't no heaven and i pray there ain't no hell" is running in my mind on a loop...
I'm not convinced glass will explode in the micro (with ordinary boiling and use) but, since I have plenty of coffee stir sticks that I really don't use to stir coffee, based on the articles I read, it helps to add something to the water to keep it from heating unevenly - I've decided to put a stir stick in my water when I micro it.
 
@AliOop , wow! Thank you!!
As I think about it, when I peeked at it after it had been on the heating pad for about 1/2 hour, and it had like a syrupy, liquid rivers in there, I bet it was actually starting to go through the gel phase- some parts faster than others. Probably if I had just put each third on the heating pad right away, each third in its own separate mold, it may very well have gone through gel evenly and maybe I could have at that point poured them into one mold. Although I hope I won't have another batch seize soon, I'm going to remember this!!!
As to the oatmeal, that makes sense that it absorbed more water than the coffee grounds and that this is why it seized so much faster.
Well, I'm definitely not combining oatmeal and either of these two fragrances again!
I need to back up and do a test bar of the Vanilla Sugar FO by itself. I really do try to do a single cavity test of new fragrances. Although, I have alot of new fragrances I haven't yet tried.... The testing process is pretty slow. It's hard to dedicate that time to just testing. But, I guess the possible punishment for not doing so is a giant batch of seized soap 😢
Thanks again!

@melinda48 ,
The lyric " i swear there ain't no heaven and i pray there ain't no hell" is running in my mind on a loop...
I'm not convinced glass will explode in the micro (with ordinary boiling and use) but, since I have plenty of coffee stir sticks that I really don't use to stir coffee, based on the articles I read, it helps to add something to the water to keep it from heating unevenly - I've decided to put a stir stick in my water when I micro it.
Sorry you had that experience. I had a siezed batter yesterday. Added a eo I have never used before. Blood orange!
I was doing a design with 3 dividers and boom couldn't take the dividers out easily. Had to really dig in to get them out. It was strange the mica green I used was fine. The other two colors reacted quickly. I knew I couldn't save this batch so I quickly put as much as I could in freezer bags and sealed the air out of them. Put the bags in a tight bucket. Will check them in 5 days. My plan is to use them for soap dough. On reflection I too am guilty of not pre- testing both colors and eos . I will have to do it. Took me hours to clean up the mess. So my plan is to pre- test all colors and my eos and fragrances! Lesson learned the hard way! 🤣
 
@Susan Cote , just when I think I've made my complete list of "things to remember," one more gets added.
I hadn't thought about testing micas. But. I guess they can morph or disappear... ahh ... so much to think about.
I've never made soap dough, but, I'd like to make some for embeds at some point.
What about putting this seized soap into sealed bags would make them usable as soap dough?
Is it just that you'll have time in a couple days? Or, does the consistency change a little?

@Susan Cote , sorry for you seizing experience, too. Sounds like you were pretty quick on your feet though :D
 
@Susan Cote , just when I think I've made my complete list of "things to remember," one more gets added.
I hadn't thought about testing micas. But. I guess they can morph or disappear... ahh ... so much to think about.
I've never made soap dough, but, I'd like to make some for embeds at some point.
What about putting this seized soap into sealed bags would make them usable as soap dough?
Is it just that you'll have time in a couple days? Or, does the consistency change a little?

Yes, if you remove the air from the soap it does work well for soap dough. With fresh soap intentionally done for soap dough, I pour it into freezer bags seal well and in 5 days. It's not sticky and it's perfect for dough. Lisa over at I dream in soap has a wonderful vid on YouTube about how to do it. With my batter seizing it was my first thought to try! I made another batch today and I used colored clays and indigo and black carbon for my colors.
From past experience using the clays can cause the soap to trace very fast. So remembering my experience with the emerald mica I wondered if adding a gold mica to my fine pink clay and a bronze to my orange clay would help slow things down. I was doing a hanger swirl and I got through the whole process without any time issues!! I was thrilled! It's in the cooler for the night. I can't wait till tomorrow! I won't get a blue from the indigo however. My eos I put in like the 5 fold orange turned the indigo green! We shall see. how it plays out. There is a lot to take into consideration! Note taking helps:). I definately need to create a eo and fragrance note book.
 
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There is my soap. I am pleased was a sound recipe. Learned a lot as we do with each batch. Next time I would darken my indigo and make wider strips of color. Also, like in a feather swirl I went straight down and then came up. Next time I would go from the top and swirl downward ! Next week I'll repeat again:) My soaping space is in the city. When I'm home on the farm there are other things to do! It's spring here and time to plant the garden!
 
@Susan Cote , that is beautiful soap, I love that wispy design!! I'm not sure if that's a trace of green or a trace of blue that I see, but just beautiful!
You must be on the other side of the globe somewhere???? In Seattle, our Fall weather is definitely here. Every day I wonder if I should yank out my tomatoes and hang them before they get frostbit. One of my basil plants turned black a couple days ago. Very sad 😢 So jealous you are starting spring
 

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