Lard Versus Tallow Shortening

[not_ally]

I still wonder about why so many of those lard soaps got DOS, especially b/c they were made w/different brands so from different purchase lots. I have only been using high lards amounts - min. 60%, usually higher - for about 4 months, but not a single bar has a speck of DOS so far. Fingers crossed.

My SF is considerably higher than yours, too, Carolyn, b/w 7-8%, you would think that would make it worse. And we are pretty close by each other geographically, I think, so I don't know if humidity would make a difference, although maybe there are some slight differences there. I do mix some other oils in, some coconut, olive/avocado and a bit of castor, I would if it is the fact that the lard was totally unadulterated that factored in somehow? Have your regular, ie; non tester/single-oil lard soaps gotten much DOS?

Anyway, kind of mystifying.

 

[JBot]

Since there may have been a mix-up, I'm wondering if this was consistent and which seems to have better lather, truly ungelled or gelled or the ones labeled as such? If there is a consistent difference, why? They should all end up with their molecules organized the same (there was talk about that structure on a different thread) in the end, but maybe they don't really.

Anybody know where I can find that thread? I'm extremely interested, I'd love to read it!

 

[not_ally]

Jane, I believe it is this one, just earlier on.

 

[topofmurrayhill]

I still wonder about why so many of those lard soaps got DOS, especially b/c they were made w/different brands so from different purchase lots.

I'm thinking mostly of the ones that turned yellow entirely and pretty much right away. I think those might have had a particular lard in common. The factors that we normally consider just can't do that with an unadulterated oil, so I think that reasonably leaves just contamination in the product or the process as a possibility. A problem with rendering, blood, a copper vessel or plumbing, I dunno but something like that. Or oil that was rancid to begin with, though that should have been detectable.

 

[rosche]

Hello, is lard/tallow shortening the same as ghee?

 

[Susie]

No. Ghee is clarified butter(made from the fat of milk), and makes stinky soap. Lard is pig fat. Tallow is the fat of almost everything else, but usually refers to cow fat.

 

[not_ally]

No, ghee is clarified butter (from cows), lard is rendered/purified fat from pig meat, and tallow is rendered/purified fat from cow meat.

 

[cmzaha]

Carolyn, did you chart other people's finding? I know there was a question about whether your gelled and ungelled were mixed up and I am having trouble following who is saying what about which.

One thing I am curious about is that I have found that bars with DOS, early is best before it stinks, seems to lather more abundantly than the same bar without. It makes be wonder if the process of DOS breaks things down such that it actually improves the lather. Not a scientific study, unfortunately.

Also, people are noting a difference in lather between gelled and ungelled. Since there may have been a mix-up, I'm wondering if this was consistent and which seems to have better lather, truly ungelled or gelled or the ones labeled as such? If there is a consistent difference, why? They should all end up with their molecules organized the same (there was talk about that structure on a different thread) in the end, but maybe they don't really. And which one ended up with such bad DOS, really gelled or ungelled, or the labeled ungelled or gelled?

The one's I send out were correct and labeled correctly. I redid the test that I thought was incorrect before sending out the samples. The gelled and un-gelled were labeled correctly. Just out of my curious nature I am going to run the test again. Every one of mine are now yellow although the tallow are the least yellow. Still none of mine really stink, but the lard ones smell like the lard when it is in the bucket

 

[cmzaha]

I'm thinking mostly of the ones that turned yellow entirely and pretty much right away. I think those might have had a particular lard in common. The factors that we normally consider just can't do that with an unadulterated oil, so I think that reasonably leaves just contamination in the product or the process as a possibility. A problem with rendering, blood, a copper vessel or plumbing, I dunno but something like that. Or oil that was rancid to begin with, though that should have been detectable.

Other than 1 tallow which I rendered was purchased and Not contaminated here. Last week I ran some palm shortening versus palm oil to see what happens. I am going to run some Smart & Final lard only and see what happens. Previous I used rendered lard from a butcher and Farmer John lard

 

[Obsidian]

Carolyn, I sent one of my 100% lard samples to you in the liquid swap box. I made them shortly after you sent your samples out and they have been on the curing rack this entire time. Not a spot of DOS, they are super hard, bright white and ungelled. I'm really curious to see if they get DOS in your conditions. I used armour brand lard.

 

[Susie]

OOOOoooohhhh!!!! 100% lard soaps! *Wanders off wondering if her hubby would notice more soap...*

 

[cmzaha]

Carolyn, I sent one of my 100% lard samples to you in the liquid swap box. I made them shortly after you sent your samples out and they have been on the curing rack this entire time. Not a spot of DOS, they are super hard, bright white and ungelled. I'm really curious to see if they get DOS in your conditions. I used armour brand lard.

I am going to look for some Armour Lard and see if it makes a difference. When I first started soaping 5yrs ago I used Snowcap lard from Wallyworld and still have my first 100% lard I made with it. I do not remember who makes the Snowcap. I am going to re-do some samples with as many different lards that I can find. Thankyou for including a sample I am anxious to get my box and will put the sample on the same rack in the same area as mine were in. Just a note I stearlized the racks in-case dos decides to be contagious...

 

[jules92207]

I use armour most of the time as well. I hope it makes a difference for you. I would also be happy to send out some 100% lard bars for testing purposes.