Just a couple of questions...

[wearytraveler]

Maybe I'm just a bit confused or I'm just not explaining my question correctly. I understand (now) that if I want 5% (for example) of my oil to be super fat then I'd let the calculator make the lye adjustment for me. The lye amount will be enough to saponify 95% of the oil leaving the desired 5% unprocessed thus allowing that amount of un-saponified oil to be left for skin conditioning.
However, if I specifically want to add extra conditioning properties to my already saponified oil (right before I mix in the fragrance/essential oils and right before I pour into a mold) does that amount need to be pre-calculated in the SoapCalc? So, for example, 32 oz of oil. I want all the oil saponified (SoapCalc set to 0% super fat). Then after the cooking process (zap testing to make sure there is no unprocessed lye) I will add my 5% of my chosen oil/butter for skin conditioning, mixing in to completely mix, then adding my fragrance/essential oils then pouring into mold.
I hope posing my question this way makes a lot more sense.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

To me, no it does not need to be. That 95% lye amount, based on a 5% lye discount, does not consider which of the oils you will put in at the end.

I would try my method posted on a dry-run recipe calculation and see what you think

 

[wearytraveler]

Thanks again for the replies and information. It's all making a lot more sense.

 

[Navaria]

I get what you're saying wearytraveler. If you hp the soap to completion, all the lye should be "used up" before you add your superfat at the very end. So these oils won't be touched by the lye and will stay in their original form. Correct? I'm not sure exactly how it works, but my concern would be with your soap going rancid with the extra oils added in that manner. Especially if you use a delicate butter. But I'm in no way an expert at this. Maybe someone with more knowledge knows about rancidity and DOS in this situation.

 

[topofmurrayhill]

I get what you're saying wearytraveler. If you hp the soap to completion, all the lye should be "used up" before you add your superfat at the very end. So these oils won't be touched by the lye and will stay in their original form. Correct? I'm not sure exactly how it works, but my concern would be with your soap going rancid with the extra oils added in that manner. Especially if you use a delicate butter. But I'm in no way an expert at this. Maybe someone with more knowledge knows about rancidity and DOS in this situation.

Oils are largely composed of fatty acids that are saponified to create soap. Those fatty acids can oxidize to create discoloration/DOS and rancidity whether they are a part of unsaponified oil or a part of the soap. Either way it can happen equally quickly, so the superfat isn't a concern. It shouldn't matter if you simply use a lye discount or add an oil at the end of cooking HP soap.

To avoid rancidity, you do have to consider the oils that go into your soap. Butters and hard (saturated) oils in general are the safest. Soft oils can increase the chances of DOS, but certain soft oils are better than others. Visit Soapcalc and highlight olive oil. In section 5, soap qualities and fatty acids, you can see that the predominant fatty acid is oleic acid. That's good. Now highlight safflower oil (the regular one). Note the large amount of linoleic acid. That's the kind of oil you want to avoid.

Incidentally, you can also see this difference at the supermarket. Oleic acid is monounsaturated (olive) and linoleic acid is polyunsaturated (safflower). You can see the percentages on the nutrition label. Aim for monounsaturated when considering liquid oils for soaping.

While solid oils aren't generally an issue, start paying attention to the threads about chelators (such as sodium citrate and EDTA) and antioxidants (such as ROE, rosemary oleoresin extract) if you want to use animal fats like lard. They could have some iron-containing contamination that can trigger DOS, so I wouldn't use them without at least a chelator.

To further defend against DOS-causing metals, always use distilled water.

 

[Seawolfe]

Maybe I missed it, but you do know that the only time you can "pick" your superfat is if you are hot processing, and you add that fat after the cook (when the soap doesn't zap any more) before you plop it into the mold. You really can't selectively superfat if you are cold processing.
I might be tired and didn't see where you are planning to hot process your soap - if I did, my apologies Just wanted to be sure.

 

[wearytraveler]

All the information garnered in the pages of this thread have become very helpful and have taught me a few things and I have definitely bookmarked the thread for reference.
Navaria, that's exactly what I was saying and before I started this thread and read all of the great info I was very confused about that. I will be hot processing and want to add about 1 ounce (roughly <5%) of either mango or shea butter to the mix after the lye is all used up so I can have those butters (oils) be my chosen super fats. I kind of knew where the butters fit into the equation but didn't quite understand how it affected the rest of the equation or if it affected it at all.
The recipe I'm working on has some lard and I have already been reading a few posts here about chelators so I can understand them and where they happen to fit in the equation. Thanks Topofmurrayhill for the extra info!
My Amazon order has been placed and all I really need now in the form of equipment is a slow cooker (going to get nicer one for cooking and use the current one for soaping) and the actual ingredients (oils and EO/FO scents). My plans are to make my first batch to get the "feel" of this and to test the recipe and see where I can tweak. Once a couple of weeks of curing/hardening have gone by (and many showers on my part), I'll pass along to some family and friends that have already volunteered to be guinea pigs for me with the agreement that they will rate the soap on certain criteria so I can further tweak subsequent batches.
All in all I'm very excited to give this a try and I have some more questions that I'll be asking in another thread.
I completely appreciate everyone's input!