Jumping into business too soon
- Thread starter funastrum
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Nobody is taking sides, and yes if a newbie is going to sell soap that can harm someone it is constructive. You don't have to continue to read the thread if you don't like what you are reading, and you are the only one mentioning 'sides'. This is not meant to be mean or hurt anyone's feelings. If one person learns something from this tread then yes it is a positive thing.
Jaccart789
Well-Known Member
I can't remember what company this was, but the "Soapqueen" had featured her on her blog. This particular crafter had only been in business for a few months and soaping not much longer, but some how her soaps were featured in the grab bags of some kind of hollywood event. I wish I could remember the name, but what I am getting at... its possible to have really awesome soaps, ideas and be able to make it. Soaping really isn't hard and if you are good you will last and if you don't you will naturally fail... everything starts with a dream, so go for it, willingness to fail is the opportunity to exceed!
This is true.
On a side note, I was featured on the Soapqueen blog last month, it was AWESOME and definitely helped generate business and followers. I haven't done any Hollywood grab bags yet, unfortunately lol.
Jaccart789
Well-Known Member
That is SOOOO COOL "Funastrum". 
A dream! I plan on flying to see Soapqueen next year and do a weekend at one of her private classes!
A dream! I plan on flying to see Soapqueen next year and do a weekend at one of her private classes!
Thanks, Susie. There was more which I wanted to say but I couldn't find a good way to state it. I also walked away from this for about an hour, came back to re-read and then re-wrote some and deleted portions of it. I don't want to upset people but it's so frustrating to see people who've made a few batches jump into selling. I can't say someone new to soapmaking can't have a wonderful recipe from the very beginning but the odds are against it. Generally, they're using a recipe they found online or in a book or they use one they created. Usually the recipes found online or in a book are good but not exceptional. As for someone creating a recipe, the odds are it's not going to be the best if a person doesn't know oil properties and shelf life. What if someone thinks "I've got this soybean oil in my cupboard, people use it in soapmaking so I'll use it, too". How long has that oil been in the cupboard? I could go on but you already know what I mean.
@ rogue -
Preaching to the choir.
I am very critical of what I make so I tend to do a lot of tweaking. I've been told I'm too picky but I can't get over the idea that whatever I make could be better. I don't think neurosis or OCD are bad things to have when you want to start a business. I'm sure you've heard the maxim "plan your business or plan to fail". I can't say this is true all the time but it's a good principle to follow.
OliveOil2 -
You mentioned a very good point - "isn't a question of how long, it has been since you made your first batch of soap, but what have you learned?" I've mentioned before that not everyone needs to wait a year to start selling and explained why I felt this way in more detail. It depends on practical experience and not just "reading about soapmaking for months" because all the theory isn't going to prepare someone for the reality of what can happen. Everyone should know you can weigh accurately, follow the steps and the batch can still go wrong. Why didn't a batch turn out as it should? Fragrance oil, temperature variance, type of water/liquid, additives, Venus goes retrograde but personally, I always blame it on soap gremlins. But I digress... Bottom line - soap didn't turn out, figure out why and fix it if possible. Know what can occur, you won't be surprised and you'll know how to deal with it next time. Example, fragrance oils which heat up fast, seize or rice. I've been surprised by FOs but I've learned to either soap cool and don't gel, HP or give up and find a different fragrance oil. What drives me nuts is a FO which misbehaves and there weren't any reviews which mentioned seizing, ricing or discoloration. Sorry, I'm starting to wander from the point. Anyway, I don't know how many times I've seen an inexperienced person ignore advice, start selling and within a short time is back on the forum asking for help because something went wrong. Frustrating isn't the word for it.
cmzaha - Thanks for the input. I didn't even think about scarring.
Angie -
Yes, a discussion is always constructive when it is concerning safety and upholding professional standards. I'm sorry it makes your stomach hurt because I've actually experienced that sensation when I've read some posts. I wish I didn't have to spend so much time repeating myself about these issues. I feel I'm using time which could be better spent more productively. As cmzaha mentioned, you don't have to read it.
Jaccart789 -
You're right it's not hard to make soap. What's hard is making soap which is good quality. Again, it's not how long you've been making soap. It's how much someone has learned through experience and I don't mean experience because the person has made a few batches. I'm all for believing yourself and following a dream but too many people take shortcuts. My gripe is about the people who don't research, toss some oils and lye together, shove it out to sell because they think it's easy money. They want the money but they don't want to do the work. It's offensive and aggravating plus when they put out bad soap, it reflects negatively on other soapers. Sure, some people may succeed right away but I'd bet these are people who did extensive research and made numerous batches. But most people won't be as conscientious, diligent and concerned about quality. They will fail at their attempts to have a soap business and in doing so, make it harder for the dedicated soapers to succeed.
I disagree. Believe it or not, I'm not picking on one specific person. While writing, I was also thinking of former members and similar incidents in the past. I could have said much more if I wanted to be nasty especially about one person's coy references which imply she's more experienced than she actually is because she thinks we can't figure it out. I want to say we can figure it out although it might take awhile. I didn't want to upset anyone but in the past several days I was stunned by some comments and the irresponsibility represented by them. I chose this topic to express my feelings about people jumping into business.
Also, this thread wasn't started to discuss start-up woes. It was started because funastrum wanted to share her dismay and concern about an inexperienced person selling soap. This is what we've been discussing and unfortunately, you can't always talk in generalities.
However, I can close this topic if enough people feel it's not serving a purpose to allow people to express their feelings about people who've jumped on the soap biz train.
edited to add: funastrum - That's awesome! Congratulations! I apologize again for venting my spleen on your topic.
@ rogue -
Preaching to the choir.
I am very critical of what I make so I tend to do a lot of tweaking. I've been told I'm too picky but I can't get over the idea that whatever I make could be better. I don't think neurosis or OCD are bad things to have when you want to start a business. I'm sure you've heard the maxim "plan your business or plan to fail". I can't say this is true all the time but it's a good principle to follow.OliveOil2 -
You mentioned a very good point - "isn't a question of how long, it has been since you made your first batch of soap, but what have you learned?" I've mentioned before that not everyone needs to wait a year to start selling and explained why I felt this way in more detail. It depends on practical experience and not just "reading about soapmaking for months" because all the theory isn't going to prepare someone for the reality of what can happen. Everyone should know you can weigh accurately, follow the steps and the batch can still go wrong. Why didn't a batch turn out as it should? Fragrance oil, temperature variance, type of water/liquid, additives, Venus goes retrograde but personally, I always blame it on soap gremlins. But I digress... Bottom line - soap didn't turn out, figure out why and fix it if possible. Know what can occur, you won't be surprised and you'll know how to deal with it next time. Example, fragrance oils which heat up fast, seize or rice. I've been surprised by FOs but I've learned to either soap cool and don't gel, HP or give up and find a different fragrance oil. What drives me nuts is a FO which misbehaves and there weren't any reviews which mentioned seizing, ricing or discoloration. Sorry, I'm starting to wander from the point. Anyway, I don't know how many times I've seen an inexperienced person ignore advice, start selling and within a short time is back on the forum asking for help because something went wrong. Frustrating isn't the word for it.
cmzaha - Thanks for the input. I didn't even think about scarring.
Angie -
Yes, a discussion is always constructive when it is concerning safety and upholding professional standards. I'm sorry it makes your stomach hurt because I've actually experienced that sensation when I've read some posts. I wish I didn't have to spend so much time repeating myself about these issues. I feel I'm using time which could be better spent more productively. As cmzaha mentioned, you don't have to read it.
Jaccart789 -
You're right it's not hard to make soap. What's hard is making soap which is good quality. Again, it's not how long you've been making soap. It's how much someone has learned through experience and I don't mean experience because the person has made a few batches. I'm all for believing yourself and following a dream but too many people take shortcuts. My gripe is about the people who don't research, toss some oils and lye together, shove it out to sell because they think it's easy money. They want the money but they don't want to do the work. It's offensive and aggravating plus when they put out bad soap, it reflects negatively on other soapers. Sure, some people may succeed right away but I'd bet these are people who did extensive research and made numerous batches. But most people won't be as conscientious, diligent and concerned about quality. They will fail at their attempts to have a soap business and in doing so, make it harder for the dedicated soapers to succeed.
I disagree. Believe it or not, I'm not picking on one specific person. While writing, I was also thinking of former members and similar incidents in the past. I could have said much more if I wanted to be nasty especially about one person's coy references which imply she's more experienced than she actually is because she thinks we can't figure it out. I want to say we can figure it out although it might take awhile. I didn't want to upset anyone but in the past several days I was stunned by some comments and the irresponsibility represented by them. I chose this topic to express my feelings about people jumping into business.
Also, this thread wasn't started to discuss start-up woes. It was started because funastrum wanted to share her dismay and concern about an inexperienced person selling soap. This is what we've been discussing and unfortunately, you can't always talk in generalities.
However, I can close this topic if enough people feel it's not serving a purpose to allow people to express their feelings about people who've jumped on the soap biz train.
edited to add: funastrum - That's awesome! Congratulations! I apologize again for venting my spleen on your topic.
Jaccart789
Well-Known Member
Hazel....
I totally agree with everything you are saying, but I just wanted to point out there are those that succeed and do well. However, I can understand annoyance by veteran soapers. I am a big believer that those that are not great at the craft will be weeded out, and I don't think at the detriment of other good soapers.
I totally agree with everything you are saying, but I just wanted to point out there are those that succeed and do well. However, I can understand annoyance by veteran soapers. I am a big believer that those that are not great at the craft will be weeded out, and I don't think at the detriment of other good soapers.
Jaccart789
Well-Known Member
I wanted to add....
I was just recently married and was on a forum for brides for about a year. It was the nastiest forum I have ever been on. This forum is honestly the most welcoming and most encouraging place to go. I am amazed by how much knowledge and willingness to help by so many members. I have not encountered one rude or snide remark since being on here. For anyone to think otherwise, should go on some other forums and get a dose of reality.
I was just recently married and was on a forum for brides for about a year. It was the nastiest forum I have ever been on. This forum is honestly the most welcoming and most encouraging place to go. I am amazed by how much knowledge and willingness to help by so many members. I have not encountered one rude or snide remark since being on here. For anyone to think otherwise, should go on some other forums and get a dose of reality.
You usually pay plus donate products to be added in Hollywood bags
Jaccart789
Well-Known Member
well... she was good enough to be included regardless.
I digress... I am not defending anyone as I honestly am not worried about the new soaper, the veteran soaper, or any soaper. Who cares... lets just continue to support each other.
I digress... I am not defending anyone as I honestly am not worried about the new soaper, the veteran soaper, or any soaper. Who cares... lets just continue to support each other.
I agree there are some who quickly learn and do well. But by learning as much as they can and making dozens or more batches. It wasn't on this forum but I remember someone who stated she had made 4 batches every year for 30 years and was sniping at another person who had "only" been making CP for 3 months. She stated everyone knew who the experienced one was and was quite rude. My opinion was the person who had been making soap for 3 months was more experienced because she had made 280 batches during that time period. The reason she had made so many batches was because she was an apprentice for another soapmaker. She learned very rapidly.
Are you sure? Perhaps funastrum was being diplomatic and didn't want to also mention this person was a member of this forum. But this person probably isn't because I think I would have noticed.
Seriously? Whatever I decide? What am I making a decision about?
I thought I had stated an opinion which you challenged so I was explaining my viewpoint. Finally something we can agree on after all. It is interesting to see what people feel the need to say. Very interesting. It's also interesting to see who they say it to and how it is said.
However, on everything else we'll have to agree to disagree. You have a science background, I have arts & humanities background so it's doubtful we'll ever find common ground on the subject of soapmaking. As for the implication I'm picking on one specific person, trust me when I say you will know if I'm "picking" on someone. I don't bother to be nice. You just haven't been a member long enough to see it.
I walked away from this thread for a while in order to retain composure, as it was quite obvious to me that there was some discussion being had about my recent post regarding farmers markets.
I simply want to state that I do not believe that I have in any way pretended to be more experienced than I am when it comes to soapmaking (hence my signature), but many people have jumped to the conclusion that because this is a soapmaking forum,"new business", "farmers markets" and "soap" are all one and the same.
I went into detail on this a bit in the other thread, but I don't know why my soap was called out particularly when I had expressed no intention of selling my soap to the broader public initially, but rather an intention to sell in general. I believe I had mentioned before that I make much more than soap, and soap is not the main thing I intend to sell.
In regards to the initial topic of this thread, I completely agree: that girl is irresponsible.
But, for myself and other people on this forum to be referenced as "irresponsible" simply because we have expressed our intentions to start up businesses... I just feel that emotions have been ruling this thread rather than actual desire to help.
I know that I don't know everything. I have expressed that before. But that does not mean that I know nothing, or that I am incapable of running a successful business from an early stage (if 9 months into planning is very early). I had hoped that it wouldn't be necessary for me to go into such detail to defend what I have been passionately developing for 9 months.
I repeat: you can't judge a book by its cover. Please do not simply make assumptions as to what someone is selling etc. (in regards to my thread). And please do not label people as irresponsible without making sure you have completely understood their intentions.
Sorry for getting off topic again. I'm just getting tired of these rabbit trails that are offensive mainly because there are so many assumptions being made.
On another note, typing on a phone is ridiculous.
I simply want to state that I do not believe that I have in any way pretended to be more experienced than I am when it comes to soapmaking (hence my signature), but many people have jumped to the conclusion that because this is a soapmaking forum,"new business", "farmers markets" and "soap" are all one and the same.
I went into detail on this a bit in the other thread, but I don't know why my soap was called out particularly when I had expressed no intention of selling my soap to the broader public initially, but rather an intention to sell in general. I believe I had mentioned before that I make much more than soap, and soap is not the main thing I intend to sell.
In regards to the initial topic of this thread, I completely agree: that girl is irresponsible.
But, for myself and other people on this forum to be referenced as "irresponsible" simply because we have expressed our intentions to start up businesses... I just feel that emotions have been ruling this thread rather than actual desire to help.
I know that I don't know everything. I have expressed that before. But that does not mean that I know nothing, or that I am incapable of running a successful business from an early stage (if 9 months into planning is very early). I had hoped that it wouldn't be necessary for me to go into such detail to defend what I have been passionately developing for 9 months.
I repeat: you can't judge a book by its cover. Please do not simply make assumptions as to what someone is selling etc. (in regards to my thread). And please do not label people as irresponsible without making sure you have completely understood their intentions.
Sorry for getting off topic again. I'm just getting tired of these rabbit trails that are offensive mainly because there are so many assumptions being made.
On another note, typing on a phone is ridiculous.
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Perhaps. We can play makebelieve and say it was anything at all, but it was noticeable after a certain point.
Seriously? Whatever I decide? What am I making a decision about?
You talked about shutting down the thread. That would be your decision.
Which I still simply don't understand. What you assert about lye makes absolutely no sense to me at all. You understand about transferable skills, I assume, so I don't comprehend how you reached your position at all. I've clearly stated that I don't deny the artistic component of soaping. There's no way to deny that it involves chemistry (because it does, that's how it happens). So, I'm at a loss. Believe what you like, I guess.
I still stand by my original thought that someone who has professional lab experience (not a couple freshman courses required for an arts degree, but a career in the lab) has transferable skills that will work just fine in a home setting, and those people start off at an advantage to those with no, or little, chemical handling experience. The substances used are identical, the safety concerns are identical, the handling skills are identical.
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Well no...you left the forum, you said.
I don't frankly CARE what someone miles and miles away from me decides to do with their time, since the impact to me (other than scrolling past reams of posting) is nil. HOWEVER - yes. In the world of small business (or ANY business) 9 months of planning and preparing to BEGIN a business is VERY VERY early in the process of being a business. "According to Bloomberg, 8 out of 10 entrepreneurs who start businesses fail within the first 18 months. A whopping 80% crash and burn." http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericwagner/2013/09/12/five-reasons-8-out-of-10-businesses-fail/ (PS, there's a LOT of good advice in that article)
So, you're really not-even-out-of-the-starting-gates level "very early".
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Yes, I forgot to turn off my e-mail notifications (which turned out to be very bad for me, because in trying to explain myself I seem to have worsened the situation). I won't comment on that any more at least because I don't want to keep beating that horse...
And thank you. I really was only trying to defend myself because I felt targeted. Now I see that I let certain things get to me when they shouldn't have. Thank you for the information!
And thank you. I really was only trying to defend myself because I felt targeted. Now I see that I let certain things get to me when they shouldn't have. Thank you for the information!
I hope everyone on here knows that I too believe that selling within a week is ridiculous. I do like this forum and its members very much. I respect yall and have said many times how thankful I am to have found it and everyone on here. I guess I should've said something along the lines of, enough with the selling too early threads. Other people may not, but I get it. I understand that products need to be thoroughly tested etc before they go on the public at larges' skin. It does make the handmade soap industry look bad when bad soaps float around. Like I said, I have bought bad soaps as well from soapers that said they have been doing it forever and just because you have done something forever doesn't mean you do it well. I should've went back and told them I wanted a refund and that they needed to go back to soap school before they sold another bar of soap. I want to learn all I can and keep getting better with time like yall have. I feel that this is a wonderful resource and it's great to be able to learn from yall. Again, I'm thankful. I just hope my products can speak for themselves whenever I sell. I will be selling this fall but only my soaps that I'm proud of and know are great soaps. I would never want my name on an inferior product. I have a lot of soaping to look forward to because I have 2 big tubs of fos to use lol. I'm happy to say that I have good recipes now that I have tried and have faith in. My beginning ones have even turned out good because I started off on the right foot with recipes that I got from good soapers that were generous and had yall to help me with the ones I have made on my own with soapcalc I'm glad I learned how to use that sucker and the properties of oils etc as well. I wish yall the best in your soaping and I hope you wish the same for me. May God bless yall.
I'm glad I learned how to use that sucker and the properties of oils etc as well. I wish yall the best in your soaping and I hope you wish the same for me. May God bless yall.
I think that she is rather underestimating what is involved, indeed!
The question is not really "when can I go in to business?" but "at what point can I go in to business and make a success of it?" - the answer to the first is "whenever, with caveats" and the latter "maybe never!"
In my case, I think that the caveats are that firstly, they need to know enough that every batch is safe. Secondly, someone should not need to ask questions about something that they are selling. If I sell a salt bar, then I should not really have many questions about salt bars. If I then want to sell a shampoo bar, then questions about formulations (I should be able to bring some ideas to the table, of course) should not be met with shock. If I am selling lotion bars, I should not really have many questions about lotion bars. If I then want to sell a bottled lotion, then questions on that should also not be met with shock.
When people who are selling ask for help tweaking a recipe that they are selling, I try to avoid answering. I also avoid the threads with "tell me your best recipe" in the title as I feel that these make it harder to learn. But that is just my viewpoint.
The question is not really "when can I go in to business?" but "at what point can I go in to business and make a success of it?" - the answer to the first is "whenever, with caveats" and the latter "maybe never!"
In my case, I think that the caveats are that firstly, they need to know enough that every batch is safe. Secondly, someone should not need to ask questions about something that they are selling. If I sell a salt bar, then I should not really have many questions about salt bars. If I then want to sell a shampoo bar, then questions about formulations (I should be able to bring some ideas to the table, of course) should not be met with shock. If I am selling lotion bars, I should not really have many questions about lotion bars. If I then want to sell a bottled lotion, then questions on that should also not be met with shock.
When people who are selling ask for help tweaking a recipe that they are selling, I try to avoid answering. I also avoid the threads with "tell me your best recipe" in the title as I feel that these make it harder to learn. But that is just my viewpoint.
Thanks everyone for your contribution to this thread. It has been a good debate for sure, and I am certain that there is some good information for those who are considering going into business. I can assure you that I am not speaking about anyone from this forum, I have only seen her frequent soap facebook groups. As far as I know she is not in this forum.
