Is There Such a Thing as Wholesale???

[McLasz]

Hi All!
So, my question has to do with buying ingredients, or materials or whatever you want to call all of the things that go into making soap and bath products in general.
Is there any such thing as wholesale prices on any supplies or things like labels if you're an actual business with tax ID's and state registration all of that stuff? It seems to me that manufacturers of other goods can get materials at wholesale prices that the general public can't get, and that is a large part of how they make a profit (I know other things go into "profit" in general, like time etc.). I can't see that that is true for soap making. Does anyone have any knowledge about this to share? I am curious to know if I am missing something somewhere, aside from the fact that if you buy in bulk prices tend to go down. Is that how it works?

 

[shunt2011]

It would likely require buying massive quantities which most of us small businesses can't afford to do. Nor do we have the space to store it.

 

[Dennis]

It would likely require buying massive quantities which most of us small businesses can't afford to do. Nor do we have the space to store it.

Just one example: 76 degree coconut oil (we all love it!) can be bought for $0.60/lb CHEAPER if you buy 50 lbs. That is still a retail price available to all and the seller still makes a profit. Quantities at wholesale would probably be by the pallet of 50lb buckets and cheaper still if buying more than 5 or more than 10 pallets. Numbers might be off but you get the idea.
When buying chemicals at my job every penny mattered and negotiations were tough but we purchased enough for a 25,000 gallon tank every couple of weeks.

 

[OldHippie]

It seems to me that manufacturers of other goods can get materials at wholesale prices that the general public can't get, and that is a large part of how they make a profit

Anyone can get the quantity prices if they buy enough. And yes, it's a large part of how they make a profit. I figure that if I could afford to buy at the 50lb rate instead of the gallon rate I could make roughly 20% more profit.

 

[McLasz]

OK I get the idea. So we're all in the same boat. I guess it just is the way of the world these days. Just seems like the little guys don't get a break. But I can get over it because I still love what I do!
Thank you all!

 

[SaltedFig]

OK I get the idea. So we're all in the same boat. I guess it just is the way of the world these days. Just seems like the little guys don't get a break. But I can get over it because I still love what I do!
Thank you all!

Group buys are a way to access cheaper prices, if you can team up with other people.
Sometimes that can be hard if you are surrounded by competitors, but for fairly generic items (like stock oils for soapmakers) it can pay off for everyone.

 

[cmzaha]

My oil supplier brings in oils by the tanker and fills up totes which probably hold up to 3k lbs, which is how I assume Soapers Choice and any big supplier brings in oils. When we purchased urethane for our former manufacturing company the totes contained 3k lbs each. We would bring in a truckload, which it what it takes to get the best prices. When I purchase 2-4 5 gallons of oil (35lbs buckets) I get my CO for around $42 a bucket

 

[lucycat]

I used to order from Soaper's Choice by pallet and a trucker shipping. I needed between 1000-1500 pounds for the shipping to be significantly cheaper. It also lets you have access to some container's that they will ship on a pallett but not with UPS (olive oil in a hard plastic square). I had two other soap makers who would go in with me to get that type of poundage. It meant ordering in the spring and storage for spring/summer of all my oils. I use to save a few hundred a year. I stopped when I lost one of the other soapmakers and we couldn't get the poundage up enough to make a difference.

 

[madison]

I believe that there is no profit really in handmade soap and body products unless the person gets wholesale prices or has another business along with it. For a single soap maker who is starting a business it's really risky to buy huge quantities to start with, but I am curious to know how would one handle such huge quantities of oils and supplies, how do you guys store them or keep them in good shape not to be rancid?

 

[lucycat]

I disagree and think there are plenty of soapmakers who make a profit. How much depends on their customer base, the amount of time they spend, their location, and their on creativity. I do think costs are the main issue and that is what makes it difficult for most soapmakers to be able to open a retail store.

I can't imagine any soapmaker starting a business having enough of an idea about their sales and customer development to be able to order large amounts of supplies. With time you can predict your sales and then order larger quantities based on your needs. I am retired and straddle the line between hobby/business and supplies are stored in my pantry, garage, and extra refrigerator. I can predict my sales reliably for the year based on my past results. I like to purchase supplies once a year to keep shipping costs down. Rancidity isn't a problem with yearly purchases when I know that is what I will use.

 

[madison]

I disagree and think there are plenty of soapmakers who make a profit. How much depends on their customer base, the amount of time they spend, their location, and their on creativity. I do think costs are the main issue and that is what makes it difficult for most soapmakers to be able to open a retail store.

I can't imagine any soapmaker starting a business having enough of an idea about their sales and customer development to be able to order large amounts of supplies. With time you can predict your sales and then order larger quantities based on your needs. I am retired and straddle the line between hobby/business and supplies are stored in my pantry, garage, and extra refrigerator. I can predict my sales reliably for the year based on my past results. I like to purchase supplies once a year to keep shipping costs down. Rancidity isn't a problem with yearly purchases when I know that is what I will use.

I didn't mean to say that they don't make a profit, I meant that they don't make as much profit comparing to other businesses with wide range of profit and less cost to start. Yes, the location, marketing skills, creativity and other factors play roll. I agree with you the cost is very high to start a soap business, this is why I think it's risky, I don't want to discourage any body, it's only my personal opinion.
May I ask please, how do you guarantee the freshness of your supplies when you purchase them in big quantity once a year ? I am asking out of curiosity, that's all.
Thank you.

 

[penelopejane]

I think it makes a difference where you shop. Some "wholesale" places are really expensive.
I think it is a fine line between buying large quantities and making sure they are still really fresh when you use them. I will only buy oils that I can use within 6 months. You don't know how long the shop stored them before you got them.
ROE helps to extend oil life or keeping them in the fridge (not always possible).

 

[OldHippie]

I think it makes a difference where you shop. ... You don't know how long the shop stored them before you got them.

Well said.
When an oil goes on sale, you may want to consider why? A smaller supplier may have stock that they need to get rid of before the date. If you cannot use it promptly, buying oil already well along in it's shelf life by not be worth the savings. A larger supplier will be buying huge quantities of oil at a time. They may buy more than they need to get a good price (sound familiar?). Upon receipt, they may put it on sale to get cash flow and storage space.

In addition, a larger supplier can afford appropriate storage space. Are you making a choice between refrigeration and a warehouse in the sun?

 

[madison]

I buy little amounts for myself, family and friends, yet I am worried if they are stored well enough.

 

[OldHippie]

Just refrigerate your oils if you have space, at least the ones high in unsaturated fatty acids. Refrigerate your EO too.

 

[madison]

I freeze my bigger jars of oils, refrigerate the small ones, with everything else, butters, essential oils....
The ones I leave out are the animal fat and coconut oil. I pamper them to be sure that they are in good shape all the time, they are my little babies, this is why I am worried about them

 

[penelopejane]

I don’t think I’d freeze oil.
The ideal temp to store OO is 50*F to reduce oxidation but avoid clouding and separation.
https://www.oliveoilsource.com/page/freezing-olive-oil

Read this. Especially posts by Daniel Dwyer who experimented.
https://www.chowhound.com/post/frozen-olive-oil-675623

 

[madison]

I don’t think I’d freeze oil.
The ideal temp to store OO is 50*F to reduce oxidation but avoid clouding and separation.
https://www.oliveoilsource.com/page/freezing-olive-oil

Read this. Especially posts by Daniel Dwyer who experimented.
https://www.chowhound.com/post/frozen-olive-oil-675623

Thank you, I'll go over them, I always freeze OO to use it in CP, I didn't know I am not supposed to.

 

[SaltedFig]

... Read this. Especially posts by Daniel Dwyer who experimented.
https://www.chowhound.com/post/frozen-olive-oil-675623

What I took from the Daniel Dwyer experiments was that different constituents of the oil could be separated out from one another, if the oil is frozen then only partially thawed.

I would still freeze the oil if there isn't room in the refrigerator for it (I'm thinking as long as the oil is fully thawed before use, it should be fine for soaping).

An aside: It was interesting that the flavour compounds could be extracted in the first two pours - that might be a useful bit of information, so thanks for the link penelopejane!

 

[penelopejane]

What I took from the Daniel Dwyer experiments was that different constituents of the oil could be separated out from one another, if the oil is frozen then only partially thawed.

I would still freeze the oil if there isn't room in the refrigerator for it (I'm thinking as long as the oil is fully thawed before use, it should be fine for soaping).

An aside: It was interesting that the flavour compounds could be extracted in the first two pours - that might be a useful bit of information, so thanks for the link penelopejane!

They suggested best practice is to keep it at 50* F rather than freezing it. If there is no need to freeze it I wouldn’t personally do so.