Is it possible to do a partial Hot Process soap and some curing times confusion?

[Astro]

Hi
I tried the CPOP yesterday and, following some general guidelines, it failed miserably - I tried the "preheat oven at 170 degrees and cook for one hour then turn off the oven and leave overnight" method which resulted in a lovely gooey overflowing bubbly mess after 45 mins which I scraped up and into the crockpot to complete HP. It seems to have turned out fine.

But this exercise has brought up other questions. From the way I understand it, Hot Process takes the soap through all the stages in a couple of hours and can generally be removed from the molds and dries a lot quicker and can be used straight away (though "curing" hardens the soap as more water evaporates). Cold Process needs to go through the stages in the mold and takes longer before it can be removed, cut and cured, with at least 4 to 6 weeks before it can be used.

But, doing research, both here on SMF and soapmaking tutorials on the web, I am now totally confused about what curing means. In some tutorials (the majority that I have seen), the explanation is that with CP the curing time is for the excess lye to neutralize before the soap can be used. However a post here on SMF says that CP soap can be used almost immediately it is removed from the mold as it has gone through all the stages and the lye has been neutralized by then, and if a soap is lye heavy no amount of time will "cure" that and it will always be lye heavy.

So is curing just a case of allowing more water to evaporate to harden to soap or have I researched myself into complete confusion and lost the plot?

If it is true that CP can be used straight away, is it possible then to do a partial hot process to allow more artistic freedom with colours and techniques with a still pourable batter and also speed up the set? Do you have to get to the zap test point before molding?

Please help me clear up my confused little brain - information overload has me flummoxed

 

[Obsidian]

First off, when you cpop, you don't leave the oven turned on. Preheat, turn off then put your soap in. You are only helping the soap stay warm so it can gel, not cook.

HP only speeds up saponification, it does absolutely nothing to speed cure. While HP is safe to use once cut, CP generally is too but neither will be a good soap or last long at all.

Curing is a lot more then the soap just drying. It goes through a chemical change, something to do with the crystalline structure of the soap. All lye soap needs a cure and often, HP needs longer to completely dry out since its made with more water.

There is a ton on bad info circulating the net. Most is just parroted from one person to another.
Look at all the mommy blogs with soap info, those people don't look into the science of soap. They just pass on bad info that they got someplace else.

@DeeAnna wrote a great post on this but I'm too lazy to search for it right now.

Edit: here is some more info
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/cure-time.35831/#post-548993

 

[shunt2011]

And you will get people who insist HP is good to go and they will be selling it in days. I've seen that posted more times than I care to mention. Again, because it's been parroted so frequently that's what they want to believe. I don't CPOP generally. I've had some minor issues with it so just insulate and let it go. I can unmold in 12-18 hours.

Obsidian gave you some great information and DeeAnna's posts are always most informative on the process.

 

[Astro]

Thank you for responding, Obsidian and Shunt.

First off, when you cpop, you don't leave the oven turned on. Preheat, turn off then put your soap in. You are only helping the soap stay warm so it can gel, not cook.

I discovered that the hard way. I read conflicting info on several sites - Lesson learnt: Do not believe everything you read.

HP only speeds up saponification, it does absolutely nothing to speed cure. While HP is safe to use once cut, CP generally is too but neither will be a good soap or last long at all.

I have noticed the changes, particularly as my older soaps mature.

Curing is a lot more then the soap just drying. It goes through a chemical change, something to do with the crystalline structure of the soap. All lye soap needs a cure and often, HP needs longer to completely dry out since its made with more water.

Thanks for the explanation - simple and clear

There is a ton on bad info circulating the net. Most is just parroted from one person to another.
Look at all the mommy blogs with soap info, those people don't look into the science of soap. They just pass on bad info that they got someplace else.

Some of these sites, their instructions, and recipes, seem to be a Halloween nightmare of misinformation, which is obviously the reason I have been confusing myself as they claim to be so experienced.

And you will get people who insist HP is good to go and they will be selling it in days. I've seen that posted more times than I care to mention. Again, because it's been parroted so frequently that's what they want to believe. I don't CPOP generally. I've had some minor issues with it so just insulate and let it go. I can unmold in 12-18 hours.

I have noticed that my HP Bastille soap is considerably different as it cures. It is usable the next day but has a rather creamy lather and almost an oily residue left (though it is not unpleasant), just one week old and it has a better lather, seems less oily (but that may just be me getting used to using it) and is lasting longer. I made a batch of soap, split into half HP and Half CP, and cured for 8 weeks and they have a very different feel on the drying rack.

Finally, thank you for the link to the Deanna's post - it has really cleared up my misunderstanding of curing

 

[cmzaha]

Your recipe and soaping procedure can contribute to the length of time it takes to un-mold your soap. If I gel my soap, I have one recipe I can many times remove from the mold in 2-4 hours, depending on trace when I poured. It is zap free, meaning no free alkali so safe to use, but it will certainly not be at it's best without at least a month cure.