Is doing M&P Cheating? Like a Box Cake Mix?

SoapMakingForum

Help Support SoapMakingForum:

Seawolfe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2014
Messages
3,272
Reaction score
2,983
Location
So Cal
Uhm, what do you think makes your M&P "soap"? By definition it is either saponified oils using LYE, &/or detergents in there. Are you really selling to people and you don't know this? I guaranteed you that there ARE chemicals in everything that you are using.
The reason that I use M&P is that I can get detergent free, no lye bases. I pride myself on using the best bases I can get, with no chemicals, parabens, SLES, SLS, and no artificial preservatives.
I agree that the CP soaps are works of art, and take more time and effort. However, I just don't want some of the ingredients in my soaps that have to go into CP.
I research everything that I put into my M&P soaps. I have a background in Aromatherapy, so every additive is natural. I use EO's for both their therapeutic properties and fragrance. Every color comes from a plant source that is beneficial for the skin, in conjunction with the EO's. I spend many hours researching and creating my combinations.
So, in that regard, I spend as much time as a CP soap maker. I am sure that many people don't put the time and effort into their M&P, but that is their choice. I am proud of every product that I offer my customers.
 

chemandcreate

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
56
Reaction score
2
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Is Melt and Pour Soap Cheating

Short answer. No it's not.
It seems that the MP soapers you were talking to were about the money, which is all well and good. But in my experience people like that alienate their consumer base through misinformation and general bad form.
I have noted a rather disturbing amount of hostility from CP soap makers, when I tell them I make MP soaps. They automatically assume a tone of superiority with me that I find infuriating. But I guess if they have only met people like described I now know why.
Here's my take: I love MP, it's easy and fun. I can play more with scent combinations and have brighter colours to work with. I don't sell it as natural or organic, or 100% handmade. I sell it as Bright, Fun, customisable scented soaps, that don't require 6-8 weeks before I can get them to the customer.
And when my CP soaps are ready to be sold I will be selling them as. 100% Natural, Vegan, Handcrafted soaps, Free from harsh chemicals that can damage your skin's PH. Custom made with carefully selected oils, natural additives and waters combined as part of a holistic lifestyle to aid in alleviating ailments etc.
My CP soaps will be geared more toward, health fanatics, families with young children etc. My MP toward teenagers, young adults, and people looking for gifts for other people.
It terms of pricing, CP soaps are cheaper to make as it's from scratch, but require more time. MP soaps are more expensive material wise but take less time. If your factoring in your time as well as expenses, it's pretty even.
I personally will be using CP soaps, as I noted a HUGE difference in my overall health once I reduced the amount of chemicals I had been putting on my skin, but I still love MP and if someone wants only to make MP then good on them and I hope that they heaps of fun doing it.
 

LBussy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
1,330
Reaction score
1,032
Location
Kansas City, MO
And when my CP soaps are ready to be sold I will be selling them as. 100% Natural, Vegan, Handcrafted soaps, Free from harsh chemicals that can damage your skin's PH. Custom made with carefully selected oils, natural additives and waters combined as part of a holistic lifestyle to aid in alleviating ailments etc.
And you will be derided by more than a few CP soap makers and possibly granted a nice letter from the FDA. That's all in a different thread I think.

I love the creativity I see in some M&P soaps. The same people can probably do the same thing with CP. Creativity is creativity - DaVinci was an artist and an engineer. I don't care one way or the other, but I do cringe when I see people make health claims when marketing their soaps.
 

pamielynn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2013
Messages
1,171
Reaction score
762
Location
Texas
I still think that MP soaping is NOT soap MAKING. This is getting old - this back and forth - but as long as the MPer is honest with their customers, all's good. I think many of us have seen just one too many soap booths with craft soap being sold as handmade soap, with wild claims attached, as well. I've got one here telling people that her plain MP will cure ringworm. Gah! And I truly believe that is the root of all this discord.
 

chemandcreate

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
56
Reaction score
2
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Hi LBussy,
Please refer back to the whole of my post. I think if you reread it as a whole again you might get what I'm trying to say a bit better instead of pulling out one section.

Having said that I am curious about what the FDA would take issue to? But I guess it doesn't matter as I'm not in the U.S.
 

Kitty_Boots

Active Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2015
Messages
37
Reaction score
12
I feel like melt and pour is cheating.. but I also feel that it's possibly a fun way to do different things that you might not be able to do with CP soap. I feel like a CP soap is more natural.. as you decide every ingredient that goes in it..
 

snappyllama

Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
3,912
Reaction score
3,045
Location
Near Charlotte NC
Hi LBussy,
Please refer back to the whole of my post. I think if you reread it as a whole again you might get what I'm trying to say a bit better instead of pulling out one section.

Having said that I am curious about what the FDA would take issue to? But I guess it doesn't matter as I'm not in the U.S.
I was curious and found this as the first google search. Australia has similar laws. You cannot make medical claims...

If you plan on selling a product, you should care enough to take 30 seconds to look up your own regulations. Just saying...

http://www.nicnas.gov.au/chemical-information/cosmetics/marketing-requirements
 

McGraysoldtowngifts

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2015
Messages
178
Reaction score
91
Location
Williamsburg Virginia
How does a Crafted Melt and pour soap base fit into this Discussion There are many that utilize many of the same ingredients as the CP/HP soaps. I have watched many videos of people making a detergent free soap base. Now they are also making it with out using alcohol. Here is a great video of how it is done with a link to a second video to a Clear base that the same person makes. [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLZW4OE-Pss[/ame].

Todd
 

shunt2011

Staff member
Admin
Joined
Apr 2, 2012
Messages
14,708
Reaction score
8,897
Location
Michigan
Because that's what most people make. Making your own MP is pretty expensive. Not many make it themselves. They are talking about pre-made bases.
 

McGraysoldtowngifts

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2015
Messages
178
Reaction score
91
Location
Williamsburg Virginia
Just thought it could be an option for anyone who wanted to make a more natural product and get the value of it being a Melt and Pour base. I am a little confused as to how it could be more expensive. The ingredients I priced the ingredients and found it to be comparable in cost to most of the Melt and pour bases.

Todd
 

chemandcreate

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
56
Reaction score
2
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Hey snappy,
I'm claiming to AID in alleviating. Not saying it will. It's a fine line, but one that I don't cross and one that I plan on using to market my products. I love a good loophole.
 

The Efficacious Gentleman

Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Messages
8,929
Reaction score
8,929
Location
Austria
Hey snappy,
I'm claiming to AID in alleviating. Not saying it will. It's a fine line, but one that I don't cross and one that I plan on using to market my products. I love a good loophole.
Still not okay - that is not a cosmetic claim.

This is why many cosmetics say "Can help to reduce the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles" because then it is a cosmetic claim, not a medical claim of repairing the skin.

This is from the link Snappy gave, right there on the front of it -

[A cosmetic product may be presented as being explicitly for cosmetic purposes only].

That is pretty clear. As Snappy said, you might want to look in to things a bit more and maybe actually consult someone on it.
 

snappyllama

Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
3,912
Reaction score
3,045
Location
Near Charlotte NC
Sorry, I re read my post and came across pretty unpleasant. I really shouldn't post when I'm hungry. What I should have said...

Please do not make unsubstantiated medical claims on any products. Aside from regulatory compliance issues that you should familiarize yourself with, you are risking the actual health of your customers. I feel very strongly about this as a family member refused proper medical care while attempting to self diagnose / self treat a "rash". It turned out to be something serious that would have been much more easily treatable had she gone to the doctor instead of slathering herself with vaguely medicinal sounding lotions... Very similar sounding to the copy you wrote.

As tempting as it may be to find loopholes in regulations, please understand that they help protect vulnerable people from themselves.
 

TBandCW

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2015
Messages
513
Reaction score
251
Location
Near beautiful Lake Tahoe, Nevada
:mrgreen:Snappy Llama you made me smile when you said "I shouldn't post when I'm hungry!"

Anyhows....my 2 cents for this thread. I have done shows with a sweetheart of a gal who does mp and says it's lye free. I don't say anything because it doesn't hurt my biz and we do like each other. This thread has clarified what I questioned....how can mp soap be lye free? I guess I can say my cured cp is lye free too based on that same reasoning. Thank you all for clearing this up for me. :)
My first soaping ever was with mp and I enjoyed the creativity of it until my beautiful creations melted at the summer farmers mkts. Time to learn the art of cp, I sell sooooo much more cp soap than I ever did mp soap. I haven't done mp since.
 

Marley

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2013
Messages
13
Reaction score
10
Perhaps we can consider it semi-handmade like the cooking show. I don't consider it cheating as long as the soap is clearly labeled Melt and Pour or "Glycerine Bar."
CP soap also contains glycerin. It is a natural byproduct of the saponification process in making soap.
 
Top