Quantcast

Is 3 oz ppo of FO going too far?

SoapMakingForum

Help Support SoapMakingForum:

G

Guest

I keep getting bars that have very little fragrance. I've wasted more money on EOs & FOs than anything else since I started the hobby.

My mold fits 2-3/4 lb batches. I've been thinking of making a pina colada bar and bought some FOs from GenWax that are skin safe: 4 oz pineapple and 4 oz of coconut. I plan to color the pineapple yellow and hope I can find a recipe that produces white soap, or I've got some titanium dioxide coming Monday.

1. Would it be worth the trouble to scent each color separately or should I just scent the whole batch with both FOs before I split it?

2. Would pineapple and coconut satisfy the high note low note thing?

3. If I use the whole FO bottles that's 8 oz / 2.75 lb = 2.9 oz ppo. I haven't been getting suitable scent at 1.5 ppo to date. Is almost 3 oz ppo going too far? And should I maybe subtract a bit of my base oils to compensate for the added fatting from the FOs?

I'll appreciate your advice! :)
 

Tabitha

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
7,135
Reaction score
143
Location
Texas
Most places will tell you the MAX for CP or HP soap is 5% . 5% of 1 pound would be .8oz per pound of oils. With that being siad, I think the standard is about 2oz per pound.
 

Tabitha

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
7,135
Reaction score
143
Location
Texas
That info is coming from top fragrance supplies. remember, they WANT to selll fo, so if it were safe to add more tey would list a higher number so they in turn could sell more fragrance!
 

Tabitha

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
7,135
Reaction score
143
Location
Texas
1. The benefit of scenting each color a different scent is the oil may turn colors, lets say your coconut turns brown, at least your pinapple will still be a pretty color rather tha the whole thing being muddy.

2. Sounds good to me!

3. Your liability & chances of burning or irritating someone's skin would be out the roof w/ that much fo.
 

Lane

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Messages
1,577
Reaction score
11
Location
Midwest, USA
I've only ever used .8oz ppo... And I have some pretty strong smelling bars... I think three oz may be waaay to much??
 
G

Guest

Lane said:
I've only ever used .8oz ppo... And I have some pretty strong smelling bars... I think three oz may be waaay to much??
What the hell is wrong with what I'm doing??? I'm wasting fortunes in EOs and FOs!
 

Lane

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Messages
1,577
Reaction score
11
Location
Midwest, USA
1 tablespoon equals about .4 oz of FO. I use at tops 4.5 Tablespoons. 2 ounces. (for a two pund batch) Of course, it's better to measure, but I've soaped these oild before and know how they will act...

What oils are you using? FO brand? Maybe you just got a bunk set of oils?
 

CiCi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Messages
246
Reaction score
23
I use 1oz ppo. Try anchoring your citrus with patchouli. You can get a small bottle and just use it for that purpose. I understand it makes a beautiful fragrance with orange oil and makes it so that orange oil will stick. Same with lemon. I'm going to try that very soon. I have also heard that you can anchor scents with corn starch, though I don't know the amount ppo. I was thinking about experimenting with adding some bicarb...but I didn't want to take the chance and have my batch explode :shock:. Anybody know what 1 tsp ppo would do to soap? Any explosions?
 
G

Guest

Thank you all for the advice. I really need to rethink this. My understanding is not adequate to explaining why my commercial CP soaps smell so aromatic and my own soaps smell faintly to zero.

I'm almost ready to try HP and hand milling because my CP soaps smell faintly or not at all.
 

Soapmaker Man

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
3,006
Reaction score
88
Location
SW Missouri
Using reputable suppliers who do not cut their FO's with DPG is the most important factor. I have never scented over 1 ounce PPO. I have soaps that are over 2 years old and still smell great. You can use too much FO, and if you are selling soaps and too much causes irritation in sensitive places, at least you have a customer upset, worse a law suit on your hands. I have never heard of anyone ever using over 1 ounce of any FO PPO.
 
G

Guest

Tabitha said:
What brands are you using?
I've been stuck mostly with what is available in retail stores:

NOW EOs 1 oz
Aura Cacia EOs 0.5 oz
GenWax FOs 4 oz

GenWax is General Wax which is located within easy driving distance from here, in North Hollywood. They are a candle supplier but among their FOs are some that they advertise as "skin safe" and I've been using only those ones. I doubt I'll buy any more FOs from GenWax. They seem very weak and are probably all diluted.

None of my soaps have ever had more than a faint scent at best, now having completed 8 batches. This is driving me nuts.

I've got these Crafter's Choice fragrances arriving tomorrow:

Dreamcicle Fragrance Oil 228 8 oz
Almond Fragrance Oil 101 8 oz
Ocean Rain Fragrance Oil 445 8 oz
Sweet Orange Essential Oil 716 32 oz
Lime, Basil, Mandarin Type Fragrance Oil 418 4 oz
Lime Mint Fragrance Oil 427 8 oz
Eucalyptus & Spearmint* Fragrance Oil 453 4 oz
Frankincense & Myrrh Natural EO Blend 594 4 oz

Any comments on my choices above will be welcome.
 

Lane

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Messages
1,577
Reaction score
11
Location
Midwest, USA
NICE choice of scents! I've never used any of those form WSP. You'll have to let us all know how they soap!
 
G

Guest

It's good to hear your favorable reaction. :) It's very hard to just go down a list and bingo which ones to try, my not having any experience in this area at all. My imagination does not include imagining scents and what they might smell like, so I'm stuck with mostly ideas from using incense and a very few examples of soaps similar to hand made purchased at Whole Foods Market, except I can recall very few of the WFM soap scents that I liked. Usually I just sniff the bars and pick which smells the best.

I'll surely be letting you know how they turn out.
 

reallyrita

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
601
Reaction score
6
Is 3 oz ppo of FO too much?

Greg: I have been following along on your saga of the fading scents in this and some of your other posts. I have a suggestion for you before you break the bank on these disappearing acts. Join The Scent Review (maybe you already have) and spend some fun time perusing their site. You can get some ideas of good stickers...both EOs and FOS and you will begin to get a sense of some of the suppliers who are at the top of their game. THEN, you can order one ounce or two ounce trial bottles and play with little one and two ounce batches. I have found that you get what you pay for....and except for sales and coupons and specials...you need to spend a bit to get the ones that do stick. Having said that.....I have had great success with some of the Bittercreek North soap scents. They are very reasonable and they are tenacious. Some of them are just not complex enough for me, but some of them are now among my standards. They have a great deal going all the time on a set of one ouncers. Their web site sucks! There, I've said it. After wasting time with it over and over, I now just pick up the phone and call. They have extremely fast turn around time. I am always surprised at how fast I get my FOs.
I have several other suppliers that I keep coming back to but I don't want to rant on about how good they are here. Everyone has their own favs and you just have to branch out and experiment with some of them.

In addition: keep the bottles tightly closed, in a cool place and out of the light. I keep mine in a dark cupboard. Don't soap too hot...that could burn off some of the scent. I found this out when I used to do M&P. That soap base when melted can be extremely hot. I discovered that the scents were stronger if I let it cool down a bit instead of adding scent just when melted. Since our CP soaps can heat up all on their own, this heat thing could be an issue for us as well.

I am going to spend some time this summer working with EOs as I have only really used FOs so far. I want to explore some new territory here with scent. I do know from my own limited experience that EO's can lose their strength over time, even when well stored. I was surprised about this. Unfortunately, we don't know how old they are when we get them. I guess that holds true for the FOs as well. But I think EOs could be more fragile.

Well, so much for this tome......good luck
 
G

Guest

Thanks Rita! Yes I've already joined although I had only one serious 1-2 hour visit there reading a sampling of most of the site. Surely was intending to spend more time there soon.
 

Soapmaker Man

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
3,006
Reaction score
88
Location
SW Missouri
Greg, I think you will find WSP FO's to be a far superior to others you have used. WSP is one of my 3 favorite FO suppliers, never disappointed in their quality. I use between .8 to max 1 ounce PPO in my recipes using their scents. Great company. Debbie May, WSP owner is a great gal!

Paul
 
G

Guest

Well I'll be a lot happier if the scents start coming out better. I've said before that the three big things in soap (in my newbie opinion) are performance, appearance and scent. In fact for me performance has been the easiest, plenty of great recipes out there and easy to create your own. The appearance of my bars is steadily improving, but for me the scent remains the final frontier.

Scent is what attracted me to the "similar to CP" bars sold at Whole Foods Market a dozen years ago. They were a whole bunch different than Dial or Irish Spring, scents that I really liked instead of just "ugh another soap." I won't be satisfied until I can get the scenting as good as the commercial bars.

Anyway my WSP EOs and FOs will be here tomorrow and I have nothing on the calendar this week. :)

Got the Select Shades coming in Tuesday too.
 

Tabitha

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
7,135
Reaction score
143
Location
Texas
WSP is my FAV supplier!

The Lemon lavender you will smell from across the room, same w/ the euca/spearmint!
 
Top