Iowa Nice.

[LittleCrazyWolf]

I feel for you DeeAnna because I have always had a hard time saying no and then being miserable about it later. I've gotten much better about standing up for myself thanks to my stepmom and husband. Neither of them ever feels bad about saying no although they are polite about it (they get much less polite if they have to say no more than once). Neither of them gives a soft no, they just say "no" or "no thank you" and move on with the conversation.

I like the idea of coming up with a fee for touring your shop. That way you are still getting paid for your time if the Jingle Freaks won't accept (or refuse to hear) your soft no.

 

[lenarenee]

Hmm. Now I'm wondering what I do when given a soft no - catch on or miss it. Going to be interesting to observe myself.

DeeAnna, I'm a native Midwesterner, also shy and introverted by nature. As I've matured over the decades have an easier time with straight forward no's because I learn I punish myself by not being honest.

In turn, I very much appreciate when someone clearly but respectfully tells me no. I need people to be straight with me so I don't have to guess/worry/wonder if I'm treading on their toes.

I bet this sleigh bell enthusiast would be mortified to know how unwanted and intrusive his visit will be for you.

In the future, if you're armed with a rehearsed and scripted "no" response, you'll be doing the next jingle bell frea...uh...enthusiast a big favor. No one wants to be "unwanted" in a social situation.

Respectful honesty protects others' feelings. And your own. Big compassionate hug for you, and better luck next time.

Btw, no disrespect intended with the "freak" reference...I love sleigh bells and have a wonderful sentimental Christmas tradition I passed on to my boys if you'd ever like to hear it.

 

[Becky_Gadmer]

You could just call him and say something to the effect of "I am so sorry, but something has come up and I am going to have to cancel your tour. I will give you a call when my schedule can accommodate your request."

That will leave it open ended with the ball in your court, in a very polite way If he is really pushy and keeps calling back, you can "check your schedule" for openings...if you don't have any, then you don't have any.

 

[regansoap]

Deeanna there are givers and takers in this world. JUST SAY NO - I HAVE THE SAME THING people who just want a free holiday at my expense - stand your ground and says it's simply not possible.

 

[navigator9]

When my aunt retired and moved to Florida, she began getting lots of solicitation calls. Lots of them were for things like tree trimming, roofing, house washing, lawn care, etc. I'm sure there is no shortage of people willing to take advantage of seniors, and it's hard to distinguish between the good guys and the bad ones. My aunt would get involved in long conversations and end up with these people showing up on her doorstep, and she would get flustered and not know what to do. So on a trip to visit her, I said, "I'll tell you exactly what to say, to get rid of them. When they tell you what they're selling, say..."Thanks, but I'm not interested." And then hang up. She was worried about not being polite, so by saying "thanks", she could still be polite, and yet refuse. So I watched her take one of these calls. She said "Thanks, but I'm not interested." But then she continued the conversation. I said, "But no, you have to hang up as soon as you say you're not interested. Don't hang on long enough for them to get their hooks into you!" It took her quite a while, but eventually she did get the hang of it. But it's very difficult, when we are raised to "be nice", to do something that goes against the grain. It's good to be the kind of person that's concerned about other people's feeling, but we need to remember that our feelings count too. That being said, I find it hard to be "mean" on the phone, too, so I just screen all of my calls and don't deal with solicitors at all. What a weenie! :lolno:

 

[DeeAnna]

I have read each and every one of your posts to this thread. Thank you for the sound advice, good ideas, and a few friendly kicks to my posterior!

I would love to call "Mr. J. F." and tell him the date is canceled, but I got so flustered and annoyed during the call yesterday that I did not think to get his number.

After sleeping on it, I think I will change my website policy to charge for shop tours and practice how to say this in a phone call. I could give tours to utter strangers with a good attitude if I felt the interaction was a two way street that benefited everyone. I know in a certain sense that seems crass, but if I'm not working on a business related task, I'm not making money. On top of that, my experience with past visits has shown they often last 2-3 hours and I'm exhausted by the end. (I not only have a problem saying "no", I also have a problem ending these visits in a timely way.) Getting payment for X amount of time would set a boundary on that.

Unfortunately today is something I'm going to have to live through as agreed upon, however reluctantly I agreed. I am sure I will live through this. I am also sure I will do tolerably well. Ten years of teaching adults in community college are handy sometimes. I hope the visitors are tolerably pleasant, laid back, and not overly nosy -- that will make it easier for me. DH has encouraged me to think of specific reasons to draw the visit to an end at a reasonable hour, such as meeting him in town for lunch or taking packages to the post office. That is a good strategy too.

Again, my sincere thanks!

 

[Stacy]

I have had great difficulty with this over the years (and am constantly working on).

I think having an answer prepared is going to be very helpful, I helps me from getting flustered when I do that.

The other thing I've learned is that people tend to believe that your time/products are worth exactly what they pay. I can't tell you how many time I've done websites or database solutions for people or charities (after a hearty 'oh yes please we really need that!') only to have them go unused because they can't be bothered learn to use it or to do something small that's require of them to set it up.

At least if you set a fee structure you're putting a value on your time (if only in your own mind). If you then choose not to charge people it is a true freebie!

On another note, because a few people have mentioned that they have similar issue. Someone who wont listen to what you're saying isn't respecting you or your time. Lots of people will prey on your good will. If they are taking advantage of it, they are no longer deserving of it.

Here are some articles with useful techniques filled to links of other articles about the same

http://lifehacker.com/how-to-say-no-to-anyone-even-a-good-friend-1635291849

http://lifehacker.com/how-people-pleasers-can-learn-to-say-no-more-often-1524324151

 

[Misschief]

and practice how to say this in a phone call.

This. Do it in front of a mirror. Do it often. It helps to practice, out loud and in private. Repeatedly. Until it becomes familiar.

I've always been a very introverted person and saying no made me feel as if I was disappointing the person I was saying no to. Working in a job where people often have unrealistic timelines (but I NEED 5000 flyers by end of day today!... for the xyz show coming up next Saturday), I've had to learn to say, No, we can't do that. I'm getting pretty good at it now but it has taken a lot of practice.

 

[dixiedragon]

I like the idea of a shop tour with a fee. Set up some kind of tour - with a time limit. Maybe a 2 hour tour that also includes some kind of activity and/or souvenir. Charge $20 a person, maybe offer discounts for groups of 10?

 

[TBandCW]

When we had our alpaca ranch there were lots of calls for farm visits. Especially during the summer when grandparents had grandkids visiting and were looking for something to do. We did what we had to do at the time and had them over, but winding down the ranch biz and starting our bath and candle biz we just said ranch was closed to visits.

With phone solicitors I am of the opinion that since I didn't ask them to call and interrupt my day, I don't need to be nice. I'm not rude because I know they are just doing their job, but I say not interested and hang up.

Don't let this situation bother you anymore, just get it over with and let it be a lesson learned.

 

[CaraBou]

In high school I had several jobs as a phone solicitor -- I called people from the phone book, from random lists, and from contact cards. Sometimes I had a name to ask for, sometimes I didn't. I appreciated people who said "no" before hanging up because then it was very clear to cross them off the list (especially if you didn't know whether you had reached the right person). To this day, I always say "no" or no thank you to unwanted callers before promptly hanging up. But for the life of me, I can't get my husband to do that; he simply hangs up without saying a word. Then I laugh at him when they call him back a day or two later!

 

[BlackDog]

Ugh, some people can be utterly obtuse! I'm very familiar with your plight DeeAnna; my mother and sister are chronic sufferers of the inability to say "no". They wind up resentfully cussing while decorating someone's cake or cleaning up after one event or another.

I myself do not suffer this affliction, but being a proud midwesterner (and schoolteacher), have mastered the art of the "soft no" that EG was referring to. My favorite: "Let me check my calendar and get back to you!" And then never call, lol. There's probably a reason I'm less popular than my mother and sister.

 

[JayJay]

So Dee Anna- how did it go? Were you able to keep it short and sweet? Did they buy $100 worth of jingle bells?

 

[Seawolfe]

" I think you are over estimating my interest in this topic"

My latest favorite. I'm a horrible horrible person....

 

[DeeAnna]

Well the visit is over and I survived. Mr. J.F. and wife spent just over an hour in the shop. I'm sure they went away reasonably pleased and satisfied.

When they decided they were done with me, they carefully packed up the bells they brought with them, said thank you very much, and left without the usual midwestern lingering "sideways" goodbye. And, nope, they had absolutely no interest in buying any bells or having me do any custom work for them.

On the face of it, the visit went okay, but the gut-level reaction to the experience is that I got used. Politely used, but used.

One thing that did go nicely as planned -- I had told them (truthfully) that I had to go to town to drop packages off at the post office and UPS depot, and I had to leave the shop no later than 4 p.m. to get that done. That set a nice deadline for wrapping things up -- worked great.

Thoughts to follow up on --

"People tend to believe that your time/products are worth exactly what they pay"
"No, but thank you!" and "No, busy tomorrow!"
"'No' is a complete sentence."
And from a horsey friend -- "Practice makes better."

 

[Steve85569]

I like the idea of a shop tour with a fee. Set up some kind of tour - with a time limit. Maybe a 2 hour tour that also includes some kind of activity and/or souvenir. Charge $20 a person, maybe offer discounts for groups of 10?

We had plants for making stuff. If you wanted some and we were not running the plant that day you got to pay a days wages for three people to run the plant plus the normal fees for materials made. Saturday was overtime and Sunday started out with a high enough fee that we always had it off.

If you come to Santa's Workshop you gotta pay the elves.:mrgreen:

 

[navigator9]

Well the visit is over and I survived. Mr. J.F. and wife spent just over an hour in the shop. I'm sure they went away reasonably pleased and satisfied.

When they decided they were done with me, they carefully packed up the bells they brought with them, said thank you very much, and left without the usual midwestern lingering "sideways" goodbye. And, nope, they had absolutely no interest in buying any bells or having me do any custom work for them.

On the face of it, the visit went okay, but the gut-level reaction to the experience is that I got used. Politely used, but used.

One thing that did go nicely as planned -- I had told them (truthfully) that I had to go to town to drop packages off at the post office and UPS depot, and I had to leave the shop no later than 4 p.m. to get that done. That set a nice deadline for wrapping things up -- worked great.

Thoughts to follow up on --

"People tend to believe that your time/products are worth exactly what they pay"
"No, but thank you!" and "No, busy tomorrow!"
"'No' is a complete sentence."
And from a horsey friend -- "Practice makes better."

They bought nothing??? Now I would have felt obligated to buy at least something from you after all that! That takes big cajones. Brass ones.

 

[LBussy]

I'm about ready to interview for that process engineer spot at the local plastics factory. No one thinks its nifty to learn what an engineer does.

I do.

I'd be more likely to play for a visit/tour of an engineering plant than for bells. :mrgreen:

 

[DeeAnna]

"If you come to Santa's Workshop you gotta pay the elves...."

That's funny, Steve -- you have a great sense of humor! It perfectly sums up my feeling.

"...They bought nothing??? Now I would have felt obligated to buy at least something..."

I would have too if I were in their shoes. I'd say most people would, Navigator. Or at least say something hopeful like, "I'm going to keep your website store in mind when I do Christmas shopping." When we stop at a gas station to use the rest room, I buy a pop (soda) or something. That Iowa Nice thing again (insert where you live if you aren't an Iowan.)

"...I'd be more likely to play for a visit/tour of an engineering plant than for bells...."

You're a notable exception to the rule, but I already knew that, Lee! :mrgreen:

One of the unexpected parts of my day job (and of soaping, come to think of it) is all the process engineering that it requires -- in other words, the art of troubleshooting and improving mechanical and chemical processes. A lot of this troubleshooting is everyday common sense and a simple willingness to tinker, but it's nice to have an engineering background to help with the more unusual problems.

 

[navigator9]

Maybe someone out there can help me with my problem. There is a religious group that goes door to door. I have tremendous respect for anyone dedicated enough to their faith that they would willingly knock on doors, knowing that they will probably have them slammed in their face. That takes guts. But. They will not take no for an answer. Admittedly, I did give this woman a very soft no. OK, it wasn't actually a no, it was more like I'm in the middle of something right now, but she has been back seven, no exaggeration, seven times. I'm ashamed to say that I have just not answered the door, because she is very pleasant, someone that I could see myself being friends with, but I know that if I do answer the door, there will be one of two outcomes, either I will cave, and end up being very frustrated with myself because I'm too wishy washy to say no firmly enough. Or I will have to get to the point where I am rude enough to close the door in her face. Either one of those will leave me feeling badly about myself. It's one thing to do it over the phone, or by email, but when the person is standing in front of you, it's quite another story. I have very strong feelings about my personal religious views. They are unconventional, but strong. It took me a long time to feel comfortable with my beliefs, and I'm happy discussing them with any of my friends, but knowing that someone has an agenda to sway me over to their side, is not a conversation I want to have. I guess I'm looking for some short but sweet prepared answer that will get my point across, even though I know that it will involve closing the door in her face at some point, because she wants to continue the conversation at any cost. I took my girlfriend out to lunch yesterday, and when I got home, there was a note on my door. She had been there again. Any help you can offer would be appreciated. Sorry if I hijacked your thread, but the timing was so perfect, considering that she showed up again yesterday.