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user 57761

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Hi all. Thanks for having me here! I am based in Zimbabwe. Things are tough here, so I thought I would learn how to make low-cost soaps using local materials with the aim of creating a soap program that I can roll out to rural villages to help them achieve economic sustainability. I look forward to learning from everyone, thanks again and I hope you all have a fantastic 2023.
 
Welcome! Sounds like a great project! If you want to let us know what local oils are available, lots of folks here will help you create a good recipe.

Out of curiosity, do folks in Zimbabwe buy whole loaves of soap, and only cut off pieces at they need them? If so, that requires a different formulation than what is typically used in many other areas of the world, where we cut the entire loaf into bars as soon as it firms up.
 
Welcome to the forum.:)
Thanks very much!
Welcome! Sounds like a great project! If you want to let us know what local oils are available, lots of folks here will help you create a good recipe.

Out of curiosity, do folks in Zimbabwe buy whole loaves of soap, and only cut off pieces at they need them? If so, that requires a different formulation than what is typically used in many other areas of the world, where we cut the entire loaf into bars as soon as it firms up.
Thank you very much for your comments and welcome! The poorer rural population in our country will buy one 'multipurpose' soap bar and that is then cut and used for everything (dishes, laundry, and bathing). The most commonly available oils are animal fats, sunflower oil, soya oil, and groundnut oil. I have done a fair bit of research but am in no way proficient. Based on that statement I believe that these will all make for a bar soap that will not be long-lasting enough. (Currently, there is a bar soap called green soap that is sold for USD0.60/Kg, so the competitive pricing would need to be in that region.) I am aware that this is not a great way to clean skin but that is what the poverty situation has created. (Attached pic shows the type sold at USD6 for a case of 10.) I am not sure if links are allowed here, so won't post one, however, if you Google Azuma Blow soap or Soda soap, you will get an idea of what is done in north and east Africa. I am trying to achieve something similar but palm oils are not an indigenous resource in our country which is the main ingredient to these soaps (palm kernel oil specifically).

I hope this helps answer! If you need any other info, let me know, and meanwhile, I hope you have an excellent day.

Welcome and wow, that sounds interesting! :)
Thank you! :D
 

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That is helpful background, thank you!

Regarding your fats, most animal fats make nice hard soap, with the exception of most bird fat, like chicken, goose, or duck. So if you have access to fat from pigs, cattle, goats, or sheep, use that!

To clarify a bit, what we call a “bar” is a single piece of soap that generally fits in the hand. A larger block made to be cut into smaller bars would be called a loaf or log; it has the width of one bar, but is long enough to cut into many bars. The other option is a slab, which is large enough to cut into several loaves or logs. Does that make sense?

Using those definitions, I think your picture shows loaves/logs sitting in holding trays. Is that correct? And that is how they are sold where you are? And how easy are they to cut when a new bar is needed?
 
if you Google Azuma Blow soap or Soda soap, you will get an idea of what is done in north and east Africa.
I did and I don't get any results like the photo you posts. For "Azuma Blow Soap", I get images of an off-white round shaped soap. The search for "Soda Soap", even when I add "East Africa" or "North Africa" yield results that are all over the place.

I did do a 'reverse image search" and came across "Green Bar Soap". I can't seem to find what oils are used, but you need to understand that you can't make soap at home for cheaper than what you pay in the store. Commercial soap makers buy in bulk...a tanker car typically holds 31,000 gallons which is around 235,000 to 240,000 lbs depending on the oil. Most commercial soap makers use a combination of Palm Oil, Palm Kernel Oil, Beef Tallow and/or Coconut Oil. They also use a 'continuous' process method and further cut costs by separating and selling the majority of glycerin that is produced. Those "green bars" are extruded...the soap batter would be poured into large flats, the flats would be chopped and turned into 'noodles' and the noodles into an extruder.

Using those definitions, I think your picture shows loaves/logs sitting in holding trays. Is that correct? And that is how they are sold where you are? And how easy are they to cut when a new bar is needed?
They are stacked on some kind of plastic or maybe canvas. Elangeni seems to be a big brand and they sell it wrapped and unwrapped as 500g bars or 1 kg "logs".
 
Welcome and wow, that sounds interesting! :)
Thank you!

That is helpful background, thank you!

Regarding your fats, most animal fats make nice hard soap, with the exception of most bird fat, like chicken, goose, or duck. So if you have access to fat from pigs, cattle, goats, or sheep, use that!

To clarify a bit, what we call a “bar” is a single piece of soap that generally fits in the hand. A larger block made to be cut into smaller bars would be called a loaf or log; it has the width of one bar, but is long enough to cut into many bars. The other option is a slab, which is large enough to cut into several loaves or logs. Does that make sense?

Using those definitions, I think your picture shows loaves/logs sitting in holding trays. Is that correct? And that is how they are sold where you are? And how easy are they to cut when a new bar is needed?
Thanks again for your time and help! In Zim there is a lot of cattle farming and so grass-fed beef is the most abundant source of fats. I have learned how to wet-process beef fat (suet fats) and have made a batch as a test this weekend. (Still completing so only halfway through at the moment.)

You are correct in stating that the 'multipurpose soaps' are sold as loaves/logs (they are generally sold in 1kg bars (2.2Lbs). They are then cut up by the user (one for bathing, one for laundry, one for dishes, etc.). Again, not great but poverty breeds necessity.

Thanks so much for your time. It is great to have the interaction!

I did and I don't get any results like the photo you posts. For "Azuma Blow Soap", I get images of an off-white round shaped soap. The search for "Soda Soap", even when I add "East Africa" or "North Africa" yield results that are all over the place.

I did do a 'reverse image search" and came across "Green Bar Soap". I can't seem to find what oils are used, but you need to understand that you can't make soap at home for cheaper than what you pay in the store. Commercial soap makers buy in bulk...a tanker car typically holds 31,000 gallons which is around 235,000 to 240,000 lbs depending on the oil. Most commercial soap makers use a combination of Palm Oil, Palm Kernel Oil, Beef Tallow and/or Coconut Oil. They also use a 'continuous' process method and further cut costs by separating and selling the majority of glycerin that is produced. Those "green bars" are extruded...the soap batter would be poured into large flats, the flats would be chopped and turned into 'noodles' and the noodles into an extruder.


They are stacked on some kind of plastic or maybe canvas. Elangeni seems to be a big brand and they sell it wrapped and unwrapped as 500g bars or 1 kg "logs".
Thanks for your comments. I understand economies of scale. The principle works well in first-world environments where industrialization has happened via the input of capital for business creation, industrialization, and mechanization. In economies where business funding is not available and people earn less than a dollar a day, different models apply. The green bar soap made and sold in Zimbabwe is manufactured in 44-gallon drums on open fires. This negates and continuous process. (There are some days when there is no electricity here).

I am not sure if links are allowed if they are not apologies to moderators. This is just one example:

Let me know if there is anything else I can try clarify for you.
 
That’s all great info! I render my tallow as well - man, it’s a lot of work! But the results are so nice. :)

So, the challenge of helping you with a recipe (your original question) from my perspective is that leaving soap in the loaf/log shape until you need another bar means it gets more and more difficult to cut as time passes. To compound that issue, you are starting with tallow, which makes a very hard soap that can even be brittle when used in high percentages, and becomes more so as time passes.

My Ugandan friends added a few ingredients that were unfamiliar to me; I don’t know if these served to keep the soap a little softer for easier cutting.

When bars are cut there in Zim, are they usually soft, or brittle? Do some smaller pieces break off, esp as the soap ages? How do they cut it?

I appreciate all you can share as this will help me with my Ugandan friends, too!
 
Thanks for your comments. I understand economies of scale. The principle works well in first-world environments where industrialization has happened via the input of capital for business creation, industrialization, and mechanization. In economies where business funding is not available and people earn less than a dollar a day, different models apply. The green bar soap made and sold in Zimbabwe is manufactured in 44-gallon drums on open fires. This negates and continuous process. (There are some days when there is no electricity here).
I understand the differences between first, second and third-world economies and even within themselves, but I was simply responding to the names and photograph of the soap you provided. Again, the soap in the photograph you provided was produced commercially, it was not 'hand-made'. You can be the absolute best artisan soap maker in the world, but the bar of soap you produce is not going to be the same as one that is commercially produced. If you are trying to compete head-to-head with a commercially produced soap, you are going to fail simply because of the costs involved.

But how you compete is the same as every artisan maker in any country, regardless of its 'numbered' status...buy selling an artisan product. That is where you recoup your labor costs and make a profit.
 
That’s all great info! I render my tallow as well - man, it’s a lot of work! But the results are so nice. :)

So, the challenge of helping you with a recipe (your original question) from my perspective is that leaving soap in the loaf/log shape until you need another bar means it gets more and more difficult to cut as time passes. To compound that issue, you are starting with tallow, which makes a very hard soap that can even be brittle when used in high percentages, and becomes more so as time passes.

My Ugandan friends added a few ingredients that were unfamiliar to me; I don’t know if these served to keep the soap a little softer for easier cutting.

When bars are cut there in Zim, are they usually soft, or brittle? Do some smaller pieces break off, esp as the soap ages? How do they cut it?

I appreciate all you can share as this will help me with my Ugandan friends, too!
Hey Alioop. I haven't made any soap yet. I am still researching the potential of the project. There was an exercise that was funded by US Aid sometime back (2012) that outlined a community assistance program. That program relied heavily on PKO, PO, and coconut oil, so I am not sure we will be able to replicate it in Zimbabwe. This is the thrust of the exercise.

Thanks for confirming the hardness of the bar, I think I will learn more once I have made some and worked out the properties. It might be an idea to sell in smaller bars than to keep one loaf for cutting. The green bars made here are fairly soft and as such, they have no issue with cutting. I will keep you posted on progress and we can hopefully help each other.

I understand the differences between first, second and third-world economies and even within themselves, but I was simply responding to the names and photograph of the soap you provided. Again, the soap in the photograph you provided was produced commercially, it was not 'hand-made'. You can be the absolute best artisan soap maker in the world, but the bar of soap you produce is not going to be the same as one that is commercially produced. If you are trying to compete head-to-head with a commercially produced soap, you are going to fail simply because of the costs involved.

But how you compete is the same as every artisan maker in any country, regardless of its 'numbered' status...buy selling an artisan product. That is where you recoup your labor costs and make a profit.
Thanks for your comments and advice, I appreciate your time. We will figure something out that works for the rural communities. Even if some of the project is donor-funded, the main point is to try to help rural people develop some form of revenue generation.

If it isn't feasible, the research will prove viability.
 
One way to make a softer bar is to make a dual-lye soap. You can search the threads here for more info, but basically you use mostly NaOH (aka sodium hydroxide) to make the lye solution, and the rest is KOH (aka potassium hydroxide). KOH is normally used to make liquid soap, but can also be mixed with the NaOH to make a softer soap (usually shave soap here in the US).

If you have KOH available, I’d probably try 90% NaOH and 10% KOH to start. You only want it soft enough to cut, but not so soft that it washes away very quickly during use.
 
Even if some of the project is donor-funded, the main point is to try to help rural people develop some form of revenue generation.

If it isn't feasible, the research will prove viability.
It is feasible, I just didn't want you to be disappointed if it doesn't generate the expected income. But it's a start and that is what is really important.
 
It is feasible, I just didn't want you to be disappointed if it doesn't generate the expected income. But it's a start and that is what is really important.
Absolutely, I wasn't being tongue-in-cheek with my reply either. I honestly do appreciate the negative critique. Your input makes me take a step back and realize that there will need to be invocation as well as goodwill. I have started working out low-cost inputs, bio digesters for any cooking requirements (HP), bulking agents like calcium carbonate to increase volume for materials profit, and all sorts of other things that will help make this a successful plan. There is still a long way to go but the first step is underway.

Thanks for your time and I hope you have an excellent day.

One way to make a softer bar is to make a dual-lye soap. You can search the threads here for more info, but basically you use mostly NaOH (aka sodium hydroxide) to make the lye solution, and the rest is KOH (aka potassium hydroxide). KOH is normally used to make liquid soap, but can also be mixed with the NaOH to make a softer soap (usually shave soap here in the US).

If you have KOH available, I’d probably try 90% NaOH and 10% KOH to start. You only want it soft enough to cut, but not so soft that it washes away very quickly during use.
Fantastic idea, thank you very much for this gem. I will start looking around at our local suppliers to see where I can find KOH. Too kind!

Have a good one and will keep you posted.
 
@RASTAS13. Welcome, as this is the Introduction forum, would you start another thread regarding all this information you wish to discuss and leave this thread for the Introduction. Thank you.
 
you need to understand that you can't make soap at home for cheaper than what you pay in the store.
I make soap cheaper than I can buy it in the store.
That's the only reason I've been soapin' the last ten years. Even if nobody buys it, it's still profitable to me compared to what I would pay buying Dr Bronners at the grocery store.
Commercial soapmakers have overhead n stuff we in our kitchen don't have to worry about.
If this nice man believes that it might turn him off soapin'.
 
I make soap cheaper than I can buy it in the store.
That's the only reason I've been soapin' the last ten years. Even if nobody buys it, it's still profitable to me compared to what I would pay buying Dr Bronners at the grocery store.
Commercial soapmakers have overhead n stuff we in our kitchen don't have to worry about.
If this nice man believes that it might turn him off soapin'.
No...you can't. And I'm not talking about Dr Bonners...I'm talking about Ivory, Jergens, Dial, Zest, Lever, Irish Spring, etc.

My local chain grocery store sell a 8-pack of Lever 2000 for $4.99...that's $0.62 a bar.

Using a basic recipe of Olive, Palm, Coconut and Castor Oils, the cost of my ingredients works out to be $0.59 a bar. Sounds great...right? But wait, I'm not done, Lever 2000 has fragrance. When I add an FO, my cost just went up to $1.05 a bar. But I'm not done...Lever 2000 is packaged. Now my bar is $1.32. But wait...I'm still not done because I haven't add my labor...making the soap, cutting the soap, packaging the soap...that bar is now $2.67. But I'm still not done because even though I'm making soap in my kitchen, I still have overhead. I use electricity, I use water, I use a portion of my kitchen to make soap, I use a portion of my garage to cure my soap, to store my soap, to store my ingredients, supplies and equipment. Can't forget equipment...scale, stick blender, bowls, spatulas, molds...those all cost money too. It may only be pennies per bar, but I still have add those costs so now we're up to around $3.00 a bar.

So tell me again how exactly $3.00 a bar is cheap than $0.62 a bar. FYI - I'm an accountant...I do cost analysis for a living.
 
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