How Much Exfoliants in Soap?

[linne1gi]

Are undissolved salt crystals really the only way of getting a good scrubby exfoliating bar? What if I wanted good scrubbiness that is less scratchy?

Does anyone have experience using any of the following exfoliants in soap (for oily, acne-prone skin)? Would love to hear about your opinions, experiences and suggestions please.

- RICE. On 22 Aug (ie 9 days ago), I made a CP 25% brine soap with the water discount at 34% and reasoned that, since the recipe renders a very firm soap, I might be able to add up to home ground & strained uncooked rice at 50% oil weight, so I did just that. However, apart from browning the soap to its current beige colour (which I guess is a sign of sugars), the rice is the only non-usual ingredient to explain the softness of the soap of this otherwise usually very hard, chalk-like soap. While the bars without rice from the same 22-Aug batch of batter are already rock hard, I can dent or even mash the rice bars with a little pressure. What is the maximum I should use? Is cooked rice better? Any experiences or ideas? Rather than toss these soft rice soaps, I figure I could still use small chunks to exfoliate occasionally. However, to what extent should I worry about the rice going off, ie despite the soap's high alkalinity?

- CORN FLOUR (not starch). What is the maximum I should use? I am fine with the change of colour to pink. Curious why the colour change occurs though. Should 2 tbsp ppo suffice?

- GARBANZO BEAN FLOUR (homemade). To my surprise, when I rub it between my fingers, it does not appear too scratchy at all. Rather, it feels cushion-like. Happy for your thoughts re max usage and any other noteworthy points (workarounds re potential spoilage, etc).

- BLACK PEPPER.

- CINNAMON. Thinking of adding a tiny bit of this spice only because it is a trace accelerator. However, can trace acceleration help to harden the soap permanently, thereby counteracting the softening effect of sugars in rice, corn flour or other exfoliants?

Definitely no black pepper or cinnamon as they are both irritants. I have used oatmeal, coffee grounds, pumice, poppy seeds, crushed apricot kernel seeds, jojoba beads and of course salt. My advice is to go light on the exfoliation - these things can be very hard on the skin. I grind the used dry coffee grounds even further, I use very fine salt and grind up the oatmeal. As for chelators - I have been using citric acid for about a year now - I use 2% and I add additional NaOH to account for the extra acid (otherwise you will increase your super fat). I only use distilled water and watch my oils for any that are high in linoleic acid and linolenic acid. Early on in my soaping career, I had several soaps that developed DOS. They all had Grapeseed Oil in them - so I no longer use that oil. I also never use Hemp Oil, Rice Bran Oil, Canola Oil or Soybean Oil. They all have been problematic.

 

[jbedaded]

I have used crushed walnut shells

 

[Adeliepenguin]

My husband is a joiner and always comes home with sticky filler stuff stuck on his hands and he was always raiding the bathroom cupboard for my body scrubs and even resorted to using my foot file! So he asked me to make him a hand soap, I use a salt bar recipe so high in CO as it needs to be cleansing and hard as he really goes to town with it and loads of poppy seeds...I wouldn’t use it on my face (and I suffer with acne) but I use it on my heels and any dry skin on my body. He loves it and it takes everything off!

 

[Garden Gives Me Joy]

Very grateful for your responses ... and having this fantastic resource! I am learning so much here.

To complicate matters, my original question was based on a desire to make an exfoliating turmeric soap. However, when I just research turmeric, I learned that it too has been found to have its own exfoliating effect.

The turmeric [...] might feel scratchy.

I have been scrubbing the majority of my life to the extent of being almost insensitive to exfoliation. However, since I will be sharing the soap, I must also consider the turmeric effect but am unsure to what extent.

... Paused, went to the kitchen and rubbed some against the back of my hand. Personally found it only barely scrubby and then it seemed to dissolve into my skin.

A YouTuber apparently used 2 tbsp ppo turmeric. I admit; one of my key interests is the antibacterial properties of the turmeric to the extent that, if excessive scrubbiness or other soaping issues were not an issue, I would love to use as much of it that won't stain fair skin. However, to what extent can I eat my cake and have it too if I also wanted the relatively more scrubbiness AND oil absorbing properties of corn flour?

Can anyone compare how scrubby turmeric felt relative to common exfoliants we have been discussing please? ... and also, how does one adjust the ppo amounts between more scrubby and less scrubby ingredients that are used in a single batch?

I realize that straining off the turmeric from infused oil is an option but fear losing its anti-bacterial goodness. ... or would I need to condense such an infusion into my 5% superfat to be added after the HP cook? Can't I just have my cake and have it too? I prefer processes with fewer steps! In other words, toss everything in at once, stir, cook, yaddy ya, then pour.

 

[linne1gi]

Very grateful for your responses ... and having this fantastic resource! I am learning so much here.

To complicate matters, my original question was based on a desire to make an exfoliating turmeric soap. However, when I just research turmeric, I learned that it too has been found to have its own exfoliating effect.





I have been scrubbing the majority of my life to the extent of being almost insensitive to exfoliation. However, since I will be sharing the soap, I must also consider the turmeric effect but am unsure to what extent.

... Paused, went to the kitchen and rubbed some against the back of my hand. Personally found it only barely scrubby and then it seemed to dissolve into my skin.

A YouTuber apparently used 2 tbsp ppo turmeric. I admit; one of my key interests is the antibacterial properties of the turmeric to the extent that, if excessive scrubbiness or other soaping issues were not an issue, I would love to use as much of it that won't stain fair skin. However, to what extent can I eat my cake and have it too if I also wanted the relatively more scrubbiness AND oil absorbing properties of corn flour?

Can anyone compare how scrubby turmeric felt relative to common exfoliants we have been discussing please? ... and also, how does one adjust the ppo amounts between more scrubby and less scrubby ingredients that are used in a single batch?

I realize that straining off the turmeric from infused oil is an option but fear losing its anti-bacterial goodness. ... or would I need to condense such an infusion into my 5% superfat to be added after the HP cook? Can't I just have my cake and have it too? I prefer processes with fewer steps! In other words, toss everything in at once, stir, cook, yaddy ya, then pour.

I suggest you make several 1 pound soaps, with varying amounts of turmeric. That’s truly the best way to find out what you like. Keep good notes.

 

[GemstonePony]

Very grateful for your responses ... and having this fantastic resource! I am learning so much here.

To complicate matters, my original question was based on a desire to make an exfoliating turmeric soap. However, when I just research turmeric, I learned that it too has been found to have its own exfoliating effect.





I have been scrubbing the majority of my life to the extent of being almost insensitive to exfoliation. However, since I will be sharing the soap, I must also consider the turmeric effect but am unsure to what extent.

... Paused, went to the kitchen and rubbed some against the back of my hand. Personally found it only barely scrubby and then it seemed to dissolve into my skin.

A YouTuber apparently used 2 tbsp ppo turmeric. I admit; one of my key interests is the antibacterial properties of the turmeric to the extent that, if excessive scrubbiness or other soaping issues were not an issue, I would love to use as much of it that won't stain fair skin. However, to what extent can I eat my cake and have it too if I also wanted the relatively more scrubbiness AND oil absorbing properties of corn flour?

Can anyone compare how scrubby turmeric felt relative to common exfoliants we have been discussing please? ... and also, how does one adjust the ppo amounts between more scrubby and less scrubby ingredients that are used in a single batch?

I realize that straining off the turmeric from infused oil is an option but fear losing its anti-bacterial goodness. ... or would I need to condense such an infusion into my 5% superfat to be added after the HP cook? Can't I just have my cake and have it too? I prefer processes with fewer steps! In other words, toss everything in at once, stir, cook, yaddy ya, then pour.

Oh, if that's the goal, and you're willing to hot process, why not do an infusion as normal into all your oils, strain as normal, hot process the oil, and then toss in new 2TBS PPO ground turmeric after the cook? Because soap is inherently alkaline, it's still going to degrade the turmeric by virtue of what it is. You would need to go the synthetic detergent route if you wanted to avoid that completely. You could hold back some infused oil to be added after hot process, but I'm concerned if you try to save all infused oil from the lye you'll be drawn to not having enough soap in your soap. It's something you'll need to experiment with.

In theory, if you're mixing exfoliants you might adjust the PPO for the course ones down from the fine ones. So, for instance, if you're doing 2TBS PPO turmeric and 1 TBS PPO cornmeal, you would do 1/2 TBS PPO of poppy seeds instead of 1 TBS Poppy Seeds. But, as mentioned, make a billion tiny batches, have your friends give you feedback, and find what works for you. When it comes to exfoliants, everyone is different, and you may decide you want equal amounts of everything.

There's really no substitute for experimentation.

 

[Dawni]

I agree on experimenting...

But I will say that my soaps with turmeric aren't scrubby at all. Maybe they mean it on a micro level? Like... It does it but not to the extent that it feels like the others? Or maybe they mean when it's used direct? Both rice and turmeric are used as face masks and there is some grit when you're rubbing them in.

Also, there isn't much research done on how much of the good stuff is retained in a soap after the lye has gotten to it. Most will agree that there's a bigger chance of more in HP when you add after the cook, but it's not a 100% guarantee. Having said that, all the additives do have an effect on the soap itself - hard, crumbly, fluid, etc... And they're fun to experiment with and add label appeal

 

[Garden Gives Me Joy]

[...] why not do an infusion as normal into all your oils, strain as normal, hot process the oil, and then toss in new 2TBS PPO ground turmeric after the cook? [...]

@GemstonePony , Thanks for this an interesting idea! If I eventually sell the soap, that approach might add label value if I say something like 'double extracted turmeric'

[...] if you're mixing exfoliants you might adjust the PPO for the course ones down from the fine ones. So, for instance, if you're doing 2TBS PPO turmeric and 1 TBS PPO cornmeal, you would do 1/2 TBS PPO [...] instead of 1 TBS [...]

@GemstonePony , Thanks for your direct answer. I am playing with comparative iterations that maintain and reduce the standard 1tbsp ppo of the coarse exfoliant. See current iteration list below.

[...] my soaps with turmeric aren't scrubby at all. Maybe they mean it on a micro level? Like... It does it but not to the extent that it feels like the others? Or maybe they mean when it's used direct? Both rice and turmeric are used as face masks and there is some grit when you're rubbing them in.

@Dawni , do you use as much as 2 tbsp ppo turmeric? On a slightly different note, does it stain fair skin after being rinsed?

Current list of planned HP experiment iterations.

• 2.5 tbsp turmeric after HP cook
• 1 tbsp other more coarse exfoliant (cornmeal) at emulsion
• 1 tbsp other more coarse exfoliant at apx 15 mins into 24-minute HP cook + 2.5 tbsp turmeric after HP cook
• 0.5 tbsp other more coarse exfoliant at apx 15 mins into 24-minute HP cook + 2.5 tbsp turmeric after HP cook

Curious to see if cooking the coarse exfoliant will make a difference in how the batter usually separates at apx 17 minutes.

Will report the results if anyone is interested.

 

[earlene]

@Dawni , do you use as much as 2 tbsp ppo turmeric? On a slightly different note, does it stain fair skin after being rinsed?

Obviously, I am not Dawni, but since I just answered your question about staining in another thread (this post) I figured, I'd link to it here since it is the same question about staining. In my experience turmeric does not stain my fair skin and that is on a leave-on product. Since soap is a wash off product, I doubt it would be an issue.

And if you add several exfoliants to a soap, you are not going to know which ones do or don't feel scratchy. In the past, I made a soap with the concoction I use to treat pimples that I mentioned in the other thread, as an additive. It was very scratchy, BUT the concoction includes very many ingredients and I could not possible know which in the mix were or were not scratchy. So if you want to know if one among them is scratchy, you are going to have to make soap with only one additive at a time.

Here's how you can to that:

Mix up a regular size batch holding out the additives until AFTER you separate the batch into individual amounts that can then be used for one or two bars of soap in individual molds. Only and one additive to each separated portion, mix & pour into individual molds. Label well and evaluate after cure and continue to re-evaluation over the course of a year at least.

I found that some ingredients become more scratchy as the soap gets older; so scratchy in fact that I relegate these soaps to FOOT SOAP ONLY. Of course my skin may be more sensitive to scratchiness than yours, as some folks don't have that same response as I.