How much butter is too much?
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Andre, the superfat will depend on the oil:lye ratio, not the water. Changing the water really just effects how the soap behaves when you are making it, speed of hardening, etc. Also some other things in terms of how it might end up looking (ash, glycerine rivers) but not the superfat.
good info. thanks.
I though about it and the logic makes no sense to me. lye needs to be dissolve in water first in order to work. less water stronger lye becomes. after the lye is dissolved in water now the lye will effect oils. based on my understanding less water will make the lye stronger.
simple way of thinking if you take a cup of water and add a tea soon of sugar then taste it now use half glass of water with same one tea spoon of sugar now taste it. half cup of water will have stronger sugar taste correct? same thing in soap
I though about it and the logic makes no sense to me. lye needs to be dissolve in water first in order to work. less water stronger lye becomes. after the lye is dissolved in water now the lye will effect oils. based on my understanding less water will make the lye stronger.
simple way of thinking if you take a cup of water and add a tea soon of sugar then taste it now use half glass of water with same one tea spoon of sugar now taste it. half cup of water will have stronger sugar taste correct? same thing in soap
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The solution may well be weaker, but the actual amount of lye is not changing at all and it is the lye itself that reacts with the oils. You could you a 1:1 ratio, 1:2, 1:3 - the amount of lye does not change, just the medium used to mix it in to the oils with.
the PH level in water will change if you use less water. when use less water simply means lye will produce more PH. I understand the amount of lye didn't change but by changing the water it effect the total PH. test the water/sugar example I mentioned. if you agree with water/sugar example then this is same as soap making
kchaystack
Supporting Member
the PH level in water will change if you use less water. when use less water simply means lye will produce more PH. I understand the amount of lye didn't change but by changing the water it effect the total PH. test the water/sugar example I mentioned. if you agree with water/sugar example then this is same as soap making
But no matter what the pH is, there are still only x amount of NaOH molecules to react with x amount of oil. The strength of your solution effects how fast that reaction happens. More water means slower reaction with lye and oil.
Hey! We hippies still have some nice soap!
WAIT!! I thought "hippies" didn't bathe. What's the soap for? :razz:
KristaMarie
Well-Known Member
Mostly just to look at...and smell. HAHA. Admitedly, I bathe much more often since making my own soap, because it's more fun!
Thank you for detail explanation. Are you saying by changing the water amount super fat stays the same ?
The way I see it before making soap test needs to be done because of so many things can effect lye behaver. going higher then 5% super fat is a question in how long it will dry up. I think figuring out correct lye amount based on experience and testing.
Andre
The way I see it before making soap test needs to be done because of so many things can effect lye behaver. going higher then 5% super fat is a question in how long it will dry up. I think figuring out correct lye amount based on experience and testing.
Andre
FlybyStardancer
Well-Known Member
Changing the water amount has zero effect on the superfat. The superfat is based on the number of lye molecules and the number of oil molecules. Water is just what is used to make the lye available to react with the oil.
kchaystack
Supporting Member
Yes. The water amount will not effect the amount of oils that are left over after all the lye is reacts.
You determine your lye amount by using a soap calculator. This is a program that takes the oils and figures out how much lye is needed to react with the oils to make soap. You can also look up the SAP values for your oils and figure this manually, but the programs are less error prone.
Andre: I am not a scientist by any stretch of the imagination. However, the way I explained the soap making process to a friend of mine the other day that had no clue whatsoever about it (and didn't know what lye or NaOH was) is this:
(I'm using made-up numbers to keep it simple.) If I have 100 grams of oils and I want to make it soap with a SF of 5%, I need to figure out how much NaOH (NOT "lye." Lye is the solution made from NaOH and H2O) it takes to turn all of that oil into soap. So, I've figured out that 1 gram of NaOH turns 10 grams of my oils into soap. If I want a 0% SF, I will mix 10 g of NaOH with some water to dissolve the NaOH and pour it into the oils. How much water? It depends on how long of a time I want to spend working with the soap or how long I want to wait for the soap to harden. If I am using all soft oils, I use less water. So, for this sample, I'm going to use 50% solution because I suck at math. 0%SF will mean 100 g oils, 10 g NaOH and 10 g H2O. HOWEVER, we want to SF at 5%. I need to knock out 5% of my total NaOH - which makes it 9.5 g of NaOH. But I still want to use 10 g water because I like that number and suck at math. I'll use 100 g oils, 10 g water and 9.5 NaOH. I now have an "extra" .5 g of water and an "extra" .5 g of oils in the soap batter that will never become soap. The oils will be the "superfat" of the soap, they'll stay behind and be extra moisturizing. The water will evaporate as part of the curing process.
I can take my 9.5 g NaOH and add it to 20 g of water, then mix that solution with my 100 g oil. I will have 95 g of soap 5 g of superfat and an extra 20.5 g of water that needs to evaporate out of my soap. The more water you add to the NaOH, the longer it takes to evaporate out of the bars. PLUS, if you superfat and have too much water, you run the risk of having all of that extra fat rise to the surface and harden. Then you have a scum of fat covering your soap that you have to either leave and hope it reabsorbs into the soap as it cures or you are going to have to wash it off. Rebatching is also an option for the extra layer of fat. It doesn't really matter how much water is used to dissolve the NaOH because the NaOH will only react with a specific amount of oils. Anything "extra" in the mix is just extra to be evaporated out. If you have 100 g oils, 10 g NaOH and 50 g water, every bit of the 10 g NaOH will react with every bit of the oils to make soap. It will be very soft, wet soap that may take a month to unmold, but it will be soap with 0% superfat.
As I said, I am not a scientist by ANY stretch of the imagination. However, this is my understanding of the way NaOH and H2O combine to create a lye solution. That lye solution reacts with oils to create soap. Once all of the lye is used up, any oils and water left over will be super fats or evaporate out. If I have any of this wrong, I am sure everyone will be jumping in to set me straight (and help you to make sure you ignore my ignorance.)
BTW: I always super fat at 8% and do my lye solution at 33%. SoapCalc is an amazing tool. Someone mentioned it in an earlier post.
(I'm using made-up numbers to keep it simple.) If I have 100 grams of oils and I want to make it soap with a SF of 5%, I need to figure out how much NaOH (NOT "lye." Lye is the solution made from NaOH and H2O) it takes to turn all of that oil into soap. So, I've figured out that 1 gram of NaOH turns 10 grams of my oils into soap. If I want a 0% SF, I will mix 10 g of NaOH with some water to dissolve the NaOH and pour it into the oils. How much water? It depends on how long of a time I want to spend working with the soap or how long I want to wait for the soap to harden. If I am using all soft oils, I use less water. So, for this sample, I'm going to use 50% solution because I suck at math. 0%SF will mean 100 g oils, 10 g NaOH and 10 g H2O. HOWEVER, we want to SF at 5%. I need to knock out 5% of my total NaOH - which makes it 9.5 g of NaOH. But I still want to use 10 g water because I like that number and suck at math. I'll use 100 g oils, 10 g water and 9.5 NaOH. I now have an "extra" .5 g of water and an "extra" .5 g of oils in the soap batter that will never become soap. The oils will be the "superfat" of the soap, they'll stay behind and be extra moisturizing. The water will evaporate as part of the curing process.
I can take my 9.5 g NaOH and add it to 20 g of water, then mix that solution with my 100 g oil. I will have 95 g of soap 5 g of superfat and an extra 20.5 g of water that needs to evaporate out of my soap. The more water you add to the NaOH, the longer it takes to evaporate out of the bars. PLUS, if you superfat and have too much water, you run the risk of having all of that extra fat rise to the surface and harden. Then you have a scum of fat covering your soap that you have to either leave and hope it reabsorbs into the soap as it cures or you are going to have to wash it off. Rebatching is also an option for the extra layer of fat. It doesn't really matter how much water is used to dissolve the NaOH because the NaOH will only react with a specific amount of oils. Anything "extra" in the mix is just extra to be evaporated out. If you have 100 g oils, 10 g NaOH and 50 g water, every bit of the 10 g NaOH will react with every bit of the oils to make soap. It will be very soft, wet soap that may take a month to unmold, but it will be soap with 0% superfat.
As I said, I am not a scientist by ANY stretch of the imagination. However, this is my understanding of the way NaOH and H2O combine to create a lye solution. That lye solution reacts with oils to create soap. Once all of the lye is used up, any oils and water left over will be super fats or evaporate out. If I have any of this wrong, I am sure everyone will be jumping in to set me straight (and help you to make sure you ignore my ignorance.)
BTW: I always super fat at 8% and do my lye solution at 33%. SoapCalc is an amazing tool. Someone mentioned it in an earlier post.
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