How Many Additives is Too Many?

Discussion in 'Lye-Based Soap Forum' started by Nancy Jensen, May 24, 2019.

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  1. May 24, 2019 #1

    Nancy Jensen

    Nancy Jensen

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    Hello Everyone,
    I enjoy making CP soap and experimenting with different additives. I tried sweet almond oil, castor oil, sugar and recently purchased aloe vera oil which I haven't used yet. My question is do most use one additive or mix and match? I've been using castor and sweet almond oil at 5% and dissolve one teaspoon of sugar in water before adding lye. I make small batches using 16 oz of fat. If I add 5% aloe vera oil is that too much?

    55% lard
    15% olive oil
    20% coconut oil
    5% castor oil
    5% sweet almond oil
    1 tsp sugar
    water to lye ratio 2.7 : 1

    would it be okay to drop the coconut oil down to 15% and add 5% aloe vera? Does this recipe have too many additives?
    thanks!
     
  2. May 24, 2019 #2

    earlene

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    Is the Aloe Vera oil actually a mix of a carrier oil and the aloe extract added? I don't know of any pure Aloe Vera Oil, but do know about the mixture. In which case, I wouldn't use it anyway, at least not in soap. You could, but you'd have to use a lye calculator that includes the Aloe Vera Oil Extract in the oils listing; not all do. Otherwise, you could use the listing for the carrier oil in which the Aloe Extract is added (coconut, almond, soy, whatever it says on the bottle.)

    Aloe Vera Juice can be used in place of all or a portion of your lye water when you mix your lye solution. As can many other non-oil liquids, in fact. I purchase Aloe Vera Juice at Walmart in a gallon sized jug.

    As far as how many additives, well it varies.

    Several folks here include the following additives fairly regularly in the same soap:
    sugar or honey
    salt or Sodium Lactate
    Aloe Juice or other water replacement liquid (milks, etc.)
    some form of clay

    So that's about 4 additives being fairly common in one soap.

    Not everyone adds more than one or two, but I wouldn't be surprised to see 3 or 4 per soap a lot of the time.
     
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  3. May 24, 2019 #3

    Obsidian

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    I've not heard of aloe vera oil, can you link the product please?
    Oils aren't considered a additive since they saponify and turn into soap.
    Additives are things like salt, sugar, silk, oatmeal, etc.
     
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  4. May 24, 2019 #4

    cmzaha

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    I add EDTA, Sorbitol, Vinegar, in most soaps and Oatmeal flour, Goat's Milk Powder, Camel Milk Powder or avocado puree to some.

    Also what Obsidian says above
     
  5. May 24, 2019 #5

    dixiedragon

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    My thought is try one new additive at a time, but once you've gotten pretty confident, add as many as you want.

    I don't consider oils (fats) to be additives. Some people recommend starting with only 3 base oils - but starting with more than that doesn't make anything more complicated. You just measure the oils into a pot.

    However, keep in mind that quantity of additives can be a problem. If you are adding a lot of stuff that doesn't become soap - honey , sugar, fruit/veg purees, milks, grains, etc, there is a point where it's more likely to mold or go bad.
     
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  6. May 24, 2019 #6

    Nancy Jensen

    Nancy Jensen

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    Aloe-Vera oil, I bought it from Crafter's Choice, label states: "additive for making soaps, lotions and cosmetics, mineral oil, coconut oil and aloe leaf extract"
    any ideas how to use it?
    thanks

    what is EDTA?

    it's a mix of mineral, coconut and aloe extract

    Aloe-Vera oil, I bought it from Crafter's Choice, label states: "additive for making soaps, lotions and cosmetics, mineral oil, coconut oil and aloe leaf extract"
    any ideas how to use it?
    thanks
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2019
  7. May 24, 2019 #8

    Obsidian

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    I wouldn't use it in soap. The mineral oil will not turn into soap, it will stay oil.
    Use it for lotion or just apply it straight to the skin.
    Personally I think it sounds like a terrible product and I'm confused as to why it was advertised as a soap additive. I would try and return it.

    If you want aloe in your recipe, get a jug of juice from walmart pharmacy and use that in place of your water. It makes really nice soap.
     
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  8. May 24, 2019 #8

    Candybee

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    I use aloe vera juice a lot in my soapmaking. I tend to use it as my lye liquid and then use a milk for the remaining liquid. Aloe juice makes the soap a bit more soothing and I love it in my soaps and use a lot of it especially in my oatmeal, goat milk, honey soap.

    Don't like the sound of the aloe oil for soapmaking. The mineral oil could make the soap oily as it won't saponify. Depends how much is in the blend. Just because it says good for using in soap does not mean it necessarily is. Its just a point of sale, you can put it in soap but what will it add or do to the finished soap?
     
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  9. May 24, 2019 #9

    Nancy Jensen

    Nancy Jensen

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    well at least it wasn't expensive. do you use half aloe juice and half milk?

    do you think I could use the aloe extract and mineral oil in place of water?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2019
  10. May 24, 2019 #10

    amd

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    WSP does provide an SAP value for it. I also noticed that they do not have CP recipes with it in their recipe vault. Screenshot_20190524-171418.jpeg
     
  11. May 25, 2019 #11

    Candybee

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    Depends... sometimes I use full aloe juice and other times I split my liquid and use half aloe half milk. Depends on which soap I am making

    Re the aloe oil-- you asking if you can use it for your liquid for your lye solution? Personally I wouldn't but its up to you. I just don't like the idea of putting mineral oil in my soap let alone my lye solution.
     
  12. May 25, 2019 #12

    lenarenee

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    Interesting. The sap value of coconut oil is .183, so WSP does seem to list a sap value for aloe vera oil. Did they forget that mineral oil doesn't saponify?
     
  13. May 25, 2019 #13

    Obsidian

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    No, lye needs to be dissolved in a proper liquid, not some oily mix
     
  14. May 25, 2019 #14

    DeeAnna

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    Most definitely do not use mineral oil (or any other fat) in place of water. Water is necessary to dissolve the NaOH (lye). NaOH does not dissolve in oil of any kind. You must use water or a water-based liquid.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
  15. May 25, 2019 #15

    cmzaha

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    I use fresh aloe or the aloe juice from Walmart. It is actually Tetrasodium EDTA that I use in soap for a chelator to help with soap scum in hard water.
     
  16. May 25, 2019 #16

    msunnerstood

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    I use aloe juice for 50% of my liquid, I add sugar and salt to the lye water, Kaolin clay and Silk Powder at trace. I sometimes add a tablespoon of glycerin after the cook before I mold it.
    I avoid Mineral oil in everything I make. There are a million warnings about how toxic it is to babies if ingested so I figure it cant be good for anyone else.
     
  17. May 25, 2019 #17

    earlene

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    NO, with a sap value (from the coconut oil, it seems) that would be like mixing your dry lye into oil. NOT the way one makes a lye solution.

    If you want to try it as one of your oils, and depending on how much of it you have, lower your superfat (because the mineral oil does not saponify and will simply be superfat. Notice that is has more mineral oil than coconut oil in it, so even with that Sap Value, the more you use, the oily the soap is going to be, even with a 0% SF. (Mineral oil is listed first on the label, which means it has the highest percentage of ingredients. It could also mean that they are all equal in percentage, but that is very unlikely. It could also mean that the first two ingredients are equal as well, but that is also unlikely.)

    Anyway, as I've mentioned before, there are some lye calculators that do have Aloe Vera Oil listed and I will link some of them. But since the carrier oils used in Aloe Vera Oil, varies from vendor to vendor, I don't know how reliable those lye calculators are when it comes to the variations:

    https://www.fromnaturewithlove.com/resources/creator.asp

    https://cranberrylane.com/soapmaking-lye-calculator

    https://www.thesage.com/calcs/LyeCalc.html

    I think I have run across a couple others, but they aren't coming up right now, so maybe not.

    Or you could use soapee.com and just choose an oil with *(as close as possible to) 0.135 Sap for NaOH and use that in place of your Aloe Vera Oil in your recipe. But I would still recommend using a lower SF, say 1-2%, depending on the rest of your oils, too.

    In fact, if you do come up with a recipe, perhaps it would be best to post it here to get feedback before making it and we can help troubleshoot any foreseeable problems and adjustments could be made before making a huge error.

    * The only oils coming close to that sap value are lanolin at 0.106 and carrot seed oil at 0.144 according to this list on SoapCalc: http://soapcalc.net/calc/OilList.asp

    CORRECTION: See DeeAnna's post below. I was looking at the KOH sap value, not the NaOH sap value. There are several to choose from - a couple of dozen at least!

     
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
  18. May 25, 2019 #18

    DeeAnna

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    Are you perhaps looking at KOH saponification values thinking they're NaOH sap values, Earlene? Many high oleic fats have an NaOH SV of around 0.13 to 0.14.

    Olive
    NaOH SV = 0.135
    KOH SV = 0.190

    Lanolin
    NaOH SV = 0.075
    KOH SV = 0.106

    Carrot seed oil
    NaOH SV = 0.103
    KOH SV = 0.144
     
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  19. May 25, 2019 #19

    earlene

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    You are so right. That makes more sense! I thought that was off, but didn't follow up on my own reaction. Thank you!
     
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