How long does the average shaving foam last you before it collapses?

[Bubble Agent]

I am talking about real shaving soap (CP or HP soap) obviously not the canned stuff.

In my post HERE I let my shaving foam sit, and the foam lasted 40 minutes without collapsing, dry out or flatten. I thought that was pretty good, but what do I know?

It was creamy and I had no issues using it after that time and spread out as easily as when I made the suds. (used that blob on my legs)

Shaving soaps are not that new to me, but I didn`t actually start making them until 2018, because KOH was not legally sold or legally imported to Norway before that time (exceptions were for chemistry labs and schools and their chemistry labs)

It has been very frustrating, so I had no way to get a hold of it anywhere. In 2018 I could finally import it from Germany (Laborladen) and FINALLY in 2020 I found a Norwegian distributor that just started up a store that sold it by the pound (yaaasss).

The people that are running the store are former soapers (and I suspect have been members here), so they know what it takes to get good ingredients. That place has been my go-to place for KOH and other things since, although I can not get everything I need and have to import a lot from England still.

Bla, bla, blaaaaaa ...
ANYWAY - therefore I feel that my experience with shaving soap is more limited than others that has made shaving soaps longer than I have, and I don`t know what everyone else thinks is good enough. Is 40 minutes ok? Is it not? Should it last longer? Less? What are you happy with?

The reason I am asking is that as the shaving soap I posted about in the link, keeps improving as it cures. (duh...)
I did expect that of course as all soaps need a god cure, wether is it shaving soap or other soaps - but I have done some further "foam-testing" now, to compare the lasting of the suds, and started to think it would be fun to hear what you guys think is acceptable for your soaps.

I will post pictures soon of my new test.

Anyone?

 

[Obsidian]

40 minutes is very good imo. Even a slow and methodical straight razor shave shouldn't take 40 minutes.
As long as the lather isn't collapsing in the middle of a shave and is slick, it should be well received.

My soap lasts 10-15 minutes but that could be my impatient lathering technique. I don't have anyone to test my soap and I just use it on my legs so its good enough for me.

 

[Bubble Agent]

Thank you so much @Obsidian for taking time to reply, I really appreciate our feedback!

If anyone that uses and makes shaving soap want to chime in I would welcome any input.

I really don`t know myself, which is why I was making this thread, in hopes of learning what other people want out of the suds, or if long lasting suds even matters at all as a general consensus. I know cushioning feel is important as my husband has explained to me what things matters to him in a good shaving soap. However my husband is just one person, so feedback from a wider perspective is always usefull to me.
If this is not something to really care about, then I won`t keep beating a dead horse and leave it be.

The shaving soap was made august of 26, 2021 (I first thought it was the 28`th, but it was 26`th), so it is now cured for a little bit over 6 weeks, which I am comfortable with when it comes to formally giving it my testers (they will get it in a weeks time when I am going down for a visit).

3 hours and 12 minutes from start to finish of the experiment.
It had collapsed a little as you may notice, but it was still very moist and soft, not dried up (which was really what I expected)
When I spread my fingers a clear window of a thin soapy film stretched out between my fingers (see close-up) without breaking.

Below are the images I took as a test September 2.

I took the pictures with my phone, so hopefully they are clear enough in the closeups.
I forgot to write down exact time! But I can see the time when I open up the images stored on my phone, that the first picture is taken 20:08 - the start of the experiment, and the last one 23:19 (after spending a minute on smearing the suds to find out if it had dried up).

PS!
I wasn`t actually going to let the blob sit for this long! An hour and a half, tops. But we had to go out for a while, and didn`t come back until around 23:00. And when I was getting ready for bed and started to brush my teeth I saw that the blob was still sitting there, on the edge of the sink. And I was like Hey, I forgot about you! So I took the pictures that you see here. At least I got a real experiment out of it, even though it was sort of by accident timewise.

First image is fresh suds 20:08. Second image 23:18. And the rest follows up to 23:20
My husband said he could have shaved with this, so it was not rendered useless according to his standards, although fresher suds would of course be better.

 

[Obsidian]

There is a wet shaving forum Forum list that you might find useful.
They have a soap review forum with a lot of discussion about lather. You don't need to be a member to read threads.

 

[Bubble Agent]

There is a wet shaving forum Forum list that you might find useful.
They have a soap review forum with a lot of discussion about lather. You don't need to be a member to read threads.

Thank you (again, lol) @Obsidian! I have popped in and checked it out real quick now, and it takes some time to wade through it all. But I will take some time and see if I can find some information that I am looking for!

One thing that stood out, was that while some preferred thinner suds without a lot of cushioning, others could simply not live without a thick, cusioning lather.

So yeah, seems like different strokes for different folks. Literally...

 

[Obsidian]

Yeah, different people will always have different preferences. One thing that is pretty universal though is slick. The thickest, nicest lather won't give a good shave is its not slick enough and most wet shavers absolutely do not want clay in a soap.

 

[Bubble Agent]

Yeah, different people will always have different preferences. One thing that is pretty universal though is slick. The thickest, nicest lather won't give a good shave is its not slick enough and most wet shavers absolutely do not want clay in a soap.

Slick is important, I agree. Draggy shaving soap is never appealing to anyone.

And, yes the clay vs NO clay kerfuffle.
Hubby is the noo clay, please! type of shaver.

 

[Johnez]

Yeah, different people will always have different preferences. One thing that is pretty universal though is slick. The thickest, nicest lather won't give a good shave is its not slick enough and most wet shavers absolutely do not want clay in a soap.

I just read a post stating slickness gets in the way of a close shave. I've never heard this before and I've read a TON. I'm going to keep my eyes peeled to see if this blossoms into another accepted axiom for wetshaving.

The no clay thing baffles me. I've heard it came from wetshavers getting riled up over bath soaps with clay being passed off as shave soaps. I get that, but.....if a real shave soap has clay, and works, why should that be sullied? And then the "dulling" of the blades....I find it highly suspect being the clay particles are suspended in lather/water. I'm bound to test this on my own eventually, and if it works I'll use it.

 

[Obsidian]

The no clay thing baffles me. I've heard it came from wetshavers getting riled up over bath soaps with clay being passed off as shave soaps. I get that, but.....if a real shave soap has clay, and works, why should that be sullied? And then the "dulling" of the blades....I find it highly suspect being the clay particles are suspended in lather/water. I'm bound to test this on my own eventually, and if it works I'll use it.

Its a bit of both really. Many do believe it dulls the edge, especially on straight razors which require expensive sharpening.
A good shave soap doesn't require clay to be slick and its seen as a short cut or sign of low quality when it does contain it.
Olive oil is another big no no for many wet shavers, it also is seen as a low quality product.

Remember that a dedicated wet shaver is a whole different kind of consumer. I spent about a year on that forum, learned a lot but since I'm a girl shaving my legs, i just wasn't as picky.

 

[Johnez]

Its a bit of both really. Many do believe it dulls the edge, especially on straight razors which require expensive sharpening.
A good shave soap doesn't require clay to be slick and its seen as a short cut or sign of low quality when it does contain it.
Olive oil is another big no no for many wet shavers, it also is seen as a low quality product.

Remember that a dedicated wet shaver is a whole different kind of consumer. I spent about a year on that forum, learned a lot but since I'm a girl shaving my legs, i just wasn't as picky.

I wonder how many of these truths are collected experience vs. assumption. Or even collected experience based on bad products turned into assumptions.

I don't want to derail this thread further, so I'll bring it back to lather. I'll perform a test tomorrow morning and post back.

 

[Johnez]

Some "before" pics

 

[Johnez]

Some "after" pics (half hour later):

 

[Johnez]

It's pretty tough to see the change in pics, but I notice there's some "pitting" in the foam as small microbubbles appear to have burst. Also it looks a bit drier. Pretty cool that it lasts this long though.

Edit-dang autocorrect. I think Google must have the vocabulary of a 4 year old.....

Edit-what the heck, 45 minute progress pics. I had to deal with my 4 year old tantrum lol!

 

[Bubble Agent]

I just read a post stating slickness gets in the way of a close shave. I've never heard this before and I've read a TON. I'm going to keep my eyes peeled to see if this blossoms into another accepted axiom for wetshaving.

The no clay thing baffles me. I've heard it came from wetshavers getting riled up over bath soaps with clay being passed off as shave soaps. I get that, but.....if a real shave soap has clay, and works, why should that be sullied? And then the "dulling" of the blades....I find it highly suspect being the clay particles are suspended in lather/water. I'm bound to test this on my own eventually, and if it works I'll use it.

I wonder how many of these truths are collected experience vs. assumption. Or even collected experience based on bad products turned into assumptions.

Hey, @Johnez and thanks for popping in and let us know about how you think about this topic! It is so useful for me to read other peoples perspective as they can be so different from my own, which is a very useful tool for me to keep learning!

The pictures were great! They told the story of your soap, lovely suds, and I could see what you were talking about, the pitting that happened after along time, but it still looked good!

Did you add glyserin to the soap? I didn`t add it to this soap, so I wonder what would happen if I added glyserin to the recipe too.... (not going to today, but who knows later...)

Re. slickness. It just occurred to me that the word slickness can mean different things to different people.

To me personally - and you may feel differently as you may have your own view of what slickness is to you - slickness is a way of helping the razor glide easily over the skin, without allowing any tugging, or grabbing of the skin as soon as it passes over the suds and scrapes it away along with the hair. It leaves a soft, slick thin film behind after the first pass, but before all the suds are scraped away.

Where the soap should give a cusioning layer of suds, softening the strands getting ready to be cut, and breaking down dirt and clean the skin gently, the slickness should also work with the lather and give some extra glide, so that when the blade get closer if a second passing with the blade is preferred, it will still make the skin protected, but without any slimy/icky type of residue.

(think oleic type slime, which is very slick, but not really what we are after in a shaving soap either. Well, at least not my husband)

My husband - who is the only reason for me being willing to go through this whole ordeal - do ALSO want the skin to feel hydrated afterwards, not dry, but not sticky either! He wants his skin to be left soft to the touch, without feeling heavy or that he needs any moisturizer after a shave.
(Well, at least he doesn`t really want much... )

Ack, I don`t even know if I make any sense?
(Sometimes the language barrier make it difficult for me to see whether or not I ramble on or manage to explain my point clearly

Re. Clay. No matter what type of clay (I have tried 4 different types with him now), and strangely no matter what type of soap, or whether or not it is a small ammount or a large ammount of clay in it - it makes my husbands skin dry and tight. A little, or a lot of lye discount - doesn`t matter.
Cleansing value of 0? Doesn`t help! I don`t know if there exist a sensitivity for an inert mineral like clay, but if it does then he has it for sure.

It is strange, but after testing this over the years, clay does not do him any favours, so he hates the stuff. So for him it isn`t the dulling of a razor that is the issue. If he had loved clay in his shaving soap, and it had dulled his razor he would simply not have care, he would go for it anyway. He likes what he likes, and I don`t interfere with any of his idiosyncrasies. After all, I have them too!

He uses a Gilette Fusion Power glide razor type.

Yes, that would be a task to find out. I suspect there is no way of really knowing...

 

[ResolvableOwl]

It's pretty tough to see the change in pics,

You're kidding. You just upload the same pictures every ten minutes.

 

[Johnez]

Hey @Bubble Agent , I used glycerin in that recipe, that one was at 10% of total oils.

I agree with your definition of slickness. I in fact was tempted to pursue oleic slime to see if I can get it to work for shaving but was given a hearty laugh and warning at that thought heh. Regardless, it seems there are tons of options, many used commercially and easy to get, some formula setups, etc. I'm going to test each and every one of them individually because that's what I care about most. Lather looks cool, cushion looks and feels nice, but I want that razor to glide right over every time. I think it's the hardest goal to get, especially vegan apparently. It's why I'm willing to entertain the idea of clay, even with the tide turning completely against it. If I ever come across a way that works I'll let you know-but I won't proselytize. ;-)

 

[Bubble Agent]

Hey @Bubble Agent , I used glycerin in that recipe, that one was at 10% of total oils.

I agree with your definition of slickness. I in fact was tempted to pursue oleic slime to see if I can get it to work for shaving but was given a hearty laugh and warning at that thought heh. Regardless, it seems there are tons of options, many used commercially and easy to get, some formula setups, etc. I'm going to test each and every one of them individually because that's what I care about most. Lather looks cool, cushion looks and feels nice, but I want that razor to glide right over every time. I think it's the hardest goal to get, especially vegan apparently. It's why I'm willing to entertain the idea of clay, even with the tide turning completely against it. If I ever come across a way that works I'll let you know-but I won't proselytize. ;-)

You TURNED DOWN an experiment? Tsk, tsk. This is the proper response....

If you end up liking clay in soap (shaving or other types) that`s cool. I have tried soaps with it, and they give off a sort of slightly a different type of suds, perhaps creamier in a way. I like it myself, but since my dear hubby`s skin can`t tolerate it at any level I don`t use it. I want him to be able to choose freely from all my soaps without being limited in what he can use. He likes to switch it up on a regular basis.

I left out the glyserin in this shaving soap, thinking it would make a difference, hopefully not to the worse, but as long as I was going to try something new I went for it. The oils would produce some glyserin of course, but not by that much.
But as you saw from the experiment even after 3 hours it was still very much usable and not dry at all.
What the difference would have been with it I can`t tell without making it again.
Which I will but my supplier is still out of KOH, and have been for a very long time, and I neeeeeeeed it...

 

[Johnez]

You TURNED DOWN an experiment? Tsk, tsk. This is the proper response....

View attachment 61673

If you end up liking clay in soap (shaving or other types) that`s cool. I have tried soaps with it, and they give off a sort of slightly a different type of suds, perhaps creamier in a way. I like it myself, but since my dear hubby`s skin can`t tolerate it at any level I don`t use it. I want him to be able to choose freely from all my soaps without being limited in what he can use. He likes to switch it up on a regular basis.

I left out the glyserin in this shaving soap, thinking it would make a difference, hopefully not to the worse, but as long as I was going to try something new I went for it. The oils would produce some glyserin of course, but not by that much.
But as you saw from the experiment even after 3 hours it was still very much usable and not dry at all.
What the difference would have been with it I can`t tell without making it again.
Which I will but my supplier is still out of KOH, and have been for a very long time, and I neeeeeeeed it...

I've "saved" that experiment for later heh.

I had to wait some time to order my KOH, but now with what I have I don't envision running out for years. Have you or do you make microbatches? At 100 grams oils at a time it'd go a long way in extending your supply.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Regarding things like clay and whether or not it dulls the blades - I am in the camp that a great soap can be made without clay, in fact many of the very best soaps don't have it (including mine ) so there is no need to add clay.

If you NEED to add clay, you have a recipe issue that should be addressed in other ways.

If you WANT to add clay, do so - but don't act shocked if a large number of wet shavers don't want to try your soap.

 

[Bubble Agent]

I've "saved" that experiment for later heh.

I had to wait some time to order my KOH, but now with what I have I don't envision running out for years. Have you or do you make microbatches? At 100 grams oils at a time it'd go a long way in extending your supply.

I can only get KOH in small bottles, so it doesn`t last me long. On a happier note my supplier told me now that they would actually increase the weight and offer 1 kg sizes soon also.

Norway has experienced a lot of issues lately, with things going out of stock because of the issues with distribution. Not within Norway, but within other countries to get it to the borders. Which is the reason the KOH has taken many months to reach my supplier.

No, I never go for big batches either when making test batches, but I don`t do microbatches either. Mine is around 200 grams per batch.

The reason for that is simple: hubby shaves his face, I shave my legs. I need to test everything on myself also, and it is a bit annoying (very annoying actually) to have such a small ammount for one batch divided between us.

This last batch is the winner over them all, so I am not going to fix what aint broke, which is very nice to have reached that point in the testing. It has been a learning curve to get it juuuust right, but it is so worth it. Now I can focus on the fragrance that I am going for, getting the CPRS, getting the containers right and decide on labels. I have done all the labour, now it`s time for the fun part. Well, the different type of fun part!

Well, I have to try it with 100% KOH once to see what happens. Just gotta!