How long CP zaps?

[Catalyna]

Hi,

I have mainly 2 different CP recipes: one with lard, the other one is vegan. These are recipes I usually use, made with them many batches last year and were very good and appreciated.
I started before Christmas making soaps for Valentines, spring, etc. There are almost 15 batches of soaps, made in a few different ways: some with lard, some vegan. For a couple, I used a premade 50% lye solution, for others I dissolved the lye just before. For some, I even experimented with a 2:1 water:lye solution.
I usually measure my oils directly in the pot, so it is possible that sometimes there is a 1 gr more of an oil than in recipe.
I always run every recipe trough soapcalc, using 5% superfat.

I zap tested my soaps starting in their 6 week of curing. First, felt soap taste, after that a tiny zap. Not as touching a battery, just like a faint sting and they were drying the skin. Same thing after a bit more than 8 weeks, but they seem to dry less.

Tested with pH strips - inconclusive, as expected; tested with red cabbage juice and, comparing with SoapQueen photos, the color of juice seem to turn more to a blue (I would say turquoise) but definitely not green.

Lard traces slower, so for sure I mixed it well; for the vegan soaps, I'm using cocoa and shea butters as hard oils, I know I'm mixing them well they tend to harden fast, but if it would have been a false trace, would that mean that the resulting soap is not good? I used the same recipe and method before and turned out great.

I am not sure what to think: are my soaps good? Red cabbage test would say that they are not lye heavy but why the faint stinging/tingling?
I would say they are improving so maybe they just need more time?

Any idea would be helpful as I'm terrified to think of re batching all those

 

[DeeAnna]

We your recipe -- ALL ingredients, not just the fats, and all in weights, not percentages. All additives, including fragrances. And how do you make your soap? Do you have hard water? Do you have skin allergies. Do you have sensitive skin?

 

[cmzaha]

Because soap will tend to sting. I find zap impossible to miss, so I am sure your soaps are fine. The drying aspect is usually formula related with to much CO, PKO or Babassu. DeeAnna beat me, and it is best to do what she said above and give us your recipe, so we can help you troubleshoot. My vegan soap with is high palm always gives a false trace until the batter starts to warm up my the lye. I just stir it until the batter starts heating up. I soap room temp lye and barely clear oils.

When using your 50% lye did you add in the extra liquid to bring it to the concentration you want? If not you soaped with 50% lye concentration which will definitely set up fast, especially in a vegan recipe. Using 2:1 water/lye gives approx a 33% lye concentration which many including myself soap with. I do use a little lower with my vegan and go with a 31% lye concentration

 

[Steve85569]

I'll send you a fresh 9 volt battery so you have something to compare ZAP to.

A little extra oil will simply increase the amount of super fat. No zap in SF.

Several fragrance oils will give my tongue an odd feeling but it's not zap. I zapped myself once. Only once. If you have you would know.

As has already been said your recipes in actual weights will help us figure out what is going on. It is possible that you are just a tad lye heavy but not the most probable thing.

 

[Catalyna]

Thanks DeeAnna and cmzaha!

I do not have hard water neither sensitivities or allergies.

This time I did not intend to do a water discount so, yes, I always added extra water (maybe not to the recipe total, but was added).

I usually use the same liquid oils: OO, CO, Castor, Almond, as for hard oils, lard or cocoa/shea. I try to balance the % by looking at oils' charts about the behavior in soap.

I keep the Coconut oil around 20% and I see I have some recipe where is up to 30%, maybe that is the culprit.

I was just testing the castile =100% olive (made on Dec 12) and not sure, but still a bit of tingling.

I'll send you a fresh 9 volt battery so you have something to compare ZAP to.

A little extra oil will simply increase the amount of super fat. No zap in SF.

Several fragrance oils will give my tongue an odd feeling but it's not zap. I zapped myself once. Only once. If you have you would know.

As has already been said your recipes in actual weights will help us figure out what is going on. It is possible that you are just a tad lye heavy but not the most probable thing.

No, it is definitely not a zap what I'm feeling so maybe is just soap
I mentioned the SF because going a bit over 5% will give more chances to neutralize lye - me thinking and rethinking all details.
I used different essential oils, fragrances, just a couple for the first time, I don't think is that.

Well, it is reassuring that you think they are fine, hope they will improve in the next few weeks. I will lower the CO %.

 

[Catalyna]

This is my recipe with lard; I usually work in grams.
And below is one of my vegan recipes; this one has a bit more CO than other ones; I'll try to balance OO/CO % in my next recipes.

 

[Catalyna]

So, I gave soaps to test to somebody who didn't have water from the city and said the soaps are fine! Two other friends living in the same area said that city water has a poor quality lately. I noticed also that my hands are very dry but I was thinking that I test too much soap I sooo hope is just that and my soaps are ok.

Now, any ideas on how to adjust the recipes for hard water? Need more SF?
I always add sodium lactate (if I don't forget). Something else?

 

[earlene]

If you don't use a water softener for your hard water, then you can add a chelator to your soap when you make it. We have a water softener, so I don't add extra chelation other than the EDTA I use in conjunction with ROE to prevent DOS. So yes, I do use a chelator, but not really for that reason.

Here is more information about chelators: https://classicbells.com/soap/chelator.html
And here is a link to the index for Classicbells, where you can choose to read about all kinds of cool soapmaking things, including different chelators & how to use them. (Scroll down to just below halfway for the index/links to the chelator material.)

Here is another active thread about chelators at SMF.

 

[Catalyna]

If you don't use a water softener for your hard water, then you can add a chelator to your soap when you make it. We have a water softener, so I don't add extra chelation other than the EDTA I use in conjunction with ROE to prevent DOS. So yes, I do use a chelator, but not really for that reason.

Here is more information about chelators: https://classicbells.com/soap/chelator.html
And here is a link to the index for Classicbells, where you can choose to read about all kinds of cool soapmaking things, including different chelators & how to use them. (Scroll down to just below halfway for the index/links to the chelator material.)

Here is another active thread about chelators at SMF.

Ugh, I need to look into this. Thanks, Earlene!

 

[IrishLass]

I have really hard water, and I've found that adding a chelator helps tremendously (I use tetrasodium EDTA). I can really feel a difference in my soaps with it (more lather), and it also helps to cut down on the nasty build-up of soap scum in my shower. It's also a nice bonus that the tetrasodium EDTA is a DOS-inhibitor as well. Oh, and I also use it as a preservative booster (along with phenonip) in my lotions . Win, win, win!


IrishLass