Hot process questions for the soap pros!

[kelly2019]

I am back to try a few things in HP soapmaking...
Wondering if any of you experienced soapers can help me with a few questions.

Pencil lines: Do you do a pencil line in HP as you would CP? I'm wondering if there is a higher chance of it breaking at the line since it will be more solid that cp?

Adding purees: I did a GM soap yesterday, lye mixture was equal amts of lye/water, then I added it to my oils, let it rest after SB emulsification, then added the rest of the water amt in slushy GM instead...then trace etc etc (I didn't get the ammonia smell which was wonderful!)
IS this the way you would also do fruit or veg purees?

Swirls: I want to do a few color swirls, I've read to add yogurt after the cook, also they say adding sodium lactate makes a more fluid consistency to swirl. lots of varying ideas on when to add the SL...to the lye, at trace, after the cook. Anyone know which is best for fluidity?

Coloring: Is mica powder what most use to color HP soap? What about adding titanium dioxide/charcoal? Do these normally get mixed with water? is the water taken out of the liquid portion of the recipe?

Temps: what temps are best to keep the HP soap at while cooking?
Do I need to heat the additives (yogurt, SL etc) to a certain temp or room temp?

These are the questions I have...I've found answers...lol...but there are a lot of different answers!
Just want to pick brains and see what I find has worked for you guys and gals.

Any other thoughts on fluidity will be more than welcomed!!!

Also, does anyone care to share a nice fluid recipe for HP soap that won't produce misshapen bars when they cure (water loss)

 

[Arimara]

Also, does anyone care to share a nice fluid recipe for HP soap that won't produce misshapen bars when they cure (water loss)

If you are using a slow cooker, place some plastic wrap over the stoneware and keep the unit on low while the soap is saponifying. Otherwise, I've got next to nothing since I rarely HP.

 

[IrishLass]

I am back to try a few things in HP soapmaking...
Wondering if any of you experienced soapers can help me with a few questions.

Pencil lines: Do you do a pencil line in HP as you would CP? I'm wondering if there is a higher chance of it breaking at the line since it will be more solid that cp?

Hi Kelly- I've never attempted a pencil line in HP and to be honest, it's not something I personally would ever try. They are hard enough for me to do in CP! lol HP batter sets up so quickly when molding that I fear the batter that I'm taking extra time to ever so carefully lay down over the pencil line to not muck it up, would end up muck it up royally because of how fast the batter is setting up. Hopefully, someone who has attempted it will chime in with their experience.

Adding purees: I did a GM soap yesterday, lye mixture was equal amts of lye/water, then I added it to my oils, let it rest after SB emulsification, then added the rest of the water amt in slushy GM instead...then trace etc etc (I didn't get the ammonia smell which was wonderful!)
IS this the way you would also do fruit or veg purees?

It's not the only way, but you can certainly add your purees this way, too. Either way is perfectly fine- whatever you are comfortable with. Personally, my favorite way to add things like milks and purees is to add them to the oils instead of as part of the lye solution.

Swirls: I want to do a few color swirls, I've read to add yogurt after the cook, also they say adding sodium lactate makes a more fluid consistency to swirl. lots of varying ideas on when to add the SL...to the lye, at trace, after the cook. Anyone know which is best for fluidity?

When I HP (and also when I CP), I always add my sodium lactate to my lye water. I've never used yogurt, so I can't speak to that.

Coloring: Is mica powder what most use to color HP soap? What about adding titanium dioxide/charcoal? Do these normally get mixed with water? is the water taken out of the liquid portion of the recipe?

I've added mica, TD, ultramarines and oxides to my HP just fine. I just disperse them in a little glycerin first...just enough glycerin to make them wet, smooth and lump-free before adding to my batter.

Temps: what temps are best to keep the HP soap at while cooking?
Do I need to heat the additives (yogurt, SL etc) to a certain temp or room temp?

I HP in a covered pot inside my oven, which is set to 180 degressF. I personally have never heated my additives, but I suppose it couldn't hurt.

These are the questions I have...I've found answers...lol...but there are a lot of different answers!
Just want to pick brains and see what I find has worked for you guys and gals.

Any other thoughts on fluidity will be more than welcomed!!!

Re: fluidity: Besides 3% SL, I also add 5% sugar ppo to my HP batches as well (added to the water before adding my lye). And I also use a full water amount, which to me is a 28% lye concentration.


IrishLass

Also, does anyone care to share a nice fluid recipe for HP soap that won't produce misshapen bars when they cure (water loss)

To date, I've never discovered a way to not eventually end up with some degree of misshapen HP bars. The less water I use (i.e. a 28% lye concentration compared to a 25% lye concentration), the less misshapen my bars become, but they still warp over time nevertheless.


IrishLass

 

[bohunk]

To make my OHP soap more fluid this is what I do. I add .5 oz of sodium lactate ppo to my soap after it has finished its cook and come out of the oven. I also add 1 extra ounce of liquid ppo to my soap after the cook along with the sodium lactate. I use full water amount along with the lye.

As far as warping goes, I found going vertical has helped minimize warping. HP will always warp; but by using vertical column molds, my soap only gets a minimal dip in the middle during the drying process.

When I used micas, don't color anymore, I'd add a bit of glycerin to the micas and then add that mixture to a small amount of soap. Then I'd add that mixture to the larger batch of soap. Think of the process of tempering eggs from cooking, to get the idea. I found this best incorporated the color additive for me.

 

[Marilyn Norgart]

I have done mica lines in HP with out any problems. I used yogurt once and didn't really see much of a difference in fluidity.

HP will always warp

how long does said warping take? I have only had one batch warp

 

[kelly2019]

UPDATE! I tried a few things to make the swirly HP soap...Husband made a tall skinny mold for me, and this is what I came up with, Fragrance is LOVESPELL, so I did the colors Victorias secret uses on the Lovespell bottles and tubes.

I have a few air pockets, etc...but I'm basically pleased with it.
I did quite a few steps that probably aren't really required, so I'll try to figure out what steps I can cut out now. lol
I had too much batter for my mold so I tried to top it up, hahaha! finally put the last in a silicone sunflower mold, and the HP batter was so fluid, it molded perfectly! I couldn't believe it!

 

[earlene]

UPDATE! I tried a few things to make the swirly HP soap...Husband made a tall skinny mold for me, and this is what I came up with, Fragrance is LOVESPELL, so I did the colors Victorias secret uses on the Lovespell bottles and tubes.

I have a few air pockets, etc...but I'm basically pleased with it.
I did quite a few steps that probably aren't really required, so I'll try to figure out what steps I can cut out now. lol
I had too much batter for my mold so I tried to top it up, hahaha! finally put the last in a silicone sunflower mold, and the HP batter was so fluid, it molded perfectly! I couldn't believe it!

View attachment 38705

Fabulous looking! I love your HP swirls and the colors are wonderful, too.

Question: What is that photo at the bottom of your post. It looks quite interesting.

 

[kelly2019]

Fabulous looking! I love your HP swirls and the colors are wonderful, too.

Question: What is that photo at the bottom of your post. It looks quite interesting.

Earlene! I can't figure out how that odd pic got on here, and I couldn't figure out how to take it off! I was hoping I was the only one who could see it.
My son uses my laptop sometimes to do "gamer" stuff and saves pics, I really have NO CLUE what it is, or how I brought it up on the soapers forum.
Maybe I need a lesson on how to delete things now. HA!

 

[Marilyn Norgart]

that is some very pretty HP soap good job--how did you get it fluid enough to do that kind of swirl?

 

[earlene]

Earlene! I can't figure out how that odd pic got on here, and I couldn't figure out how to take it off! I was hoping I was the only one who could see it.
My son uses my laptop sometimes to do "gamer" stuff and saves pics, I really have NO CLUE what it is, or how I brought it up on the soapers forum.
Maybe I need a lesson on how to delete things now. HA!

As far as I know you can only delete images you embed into the post, but not attached images. As that is an attachment, I think only an admin can deleted it.

I will test it out to just be sure, as that is what my experience remembers, and I could be wrong. I will edit this post, try to delete and include an answer to this question when I am done.

Okay you CAN delete an attachment. I didn't think you could. Here is how:

just a minute, I have to add an attachment again & come back to do it again in order to get the directions correct.

Here's how.

1. Choose edit:
2. Choose More Options:
3. Choose Delete

4. Save.

 

[kelly2019]

As far as I know you can only delete images you embed into the post, but not attached images. As that is an attachment, I think only an admin can deleted it.

I will test it out to just be sure, as that is what my experience remembers, and I could be wrong. I will edit this post, try to delete and include an answer to this question when I am done.

Okay you CAN delete an attachment. I didn't think you could. Here is how:

just a minute, I have to add an attachment again & come back to do it again in order to get the directions correct.

Here's how.

1. Choose edit:
2. Choose More Options:
3. Choose Delete
View attachment 38712 View attachment 38713 View attachment 38714 4. Save.

Got it! lol Thanks a bunch Earlene!

that is some very pretty HP soap good job--how did you get it fluid enough to do that kind of swirl?

If you ever watch youtube...go to Valerie Mosher , she has several soap videos, and in her descriptions..she will list things she adds.
I think the main one was to keep the plastic wrap over the crock, use full water amt (38%) and add .5 oz sodium lactate ppo, plus a T of full fat yogurt ppo. I also kept my color mixing bowls and super fat in the warm oven.
A few videos she does cooks at a hotter temp, around 180-185 to start, but I couldn't get my lye up after it had cooled some.
Then today I watched another video she soaped at around 150-160...she called it "low temp" HP soap.
Very interesting videos she has. And the things she does seem to work, my soap yesterday was proof.

Good to note though-- I tried to unmold mine after 5 hours, and it was still fluid!! I nearly had a HUGE mess! That's why I have somewhat wompy bars- I had to squish it back down in the mold. LOL
So for future reference...it takes 12 hours or more unless you refrigerate it or cool it down somehow. My mold was wood. I can usually unmold hot process really quickly, like 2-3 hours.

 

[Marilyn Norgart]

thanks Kelly I will have to watch those videos. there are a few soaps that I only have made with HP and the one has mica lines in it. just need to be careful to not use to much mica

 

[jcandleattic]

The first and only time I tried doing an HP batch like Valerie Mosher (with all that extra liquid) by the time the bars were fully cured they were barely recognizable they had warped so bad. So that will be something to keep in mind.

 

[Marilyn Norgart]

thanks for the reminder--haven't done HP for awhile but I do remember purposely trying to not add too much liquid and I didn't stir while it was cooking either

 

[bohunk]

Interesting that your soap was still liquid after several hours. With mine, full liquid with lye water, .5 oz sodium lactate ppo after cook and 1 oz extra liquid ppo after cook (either goat milk or coconut milk), my soap is solid within a couple of hours and I can unmold with success. I use acrylic tubes for mold sprayed with PAM to help release. I wonder if the mold material, wood v. acrylic has anything to do with a slower solidification time. I usually make 2 pd. batches of soap.

 

[kelly2019]

Interesting that your soap was still liquid after several hours. With mine, full liquid with lye water, .5 oz sodium lactate ppo after cook and 1 oz extra liquid ppo after cook (either goat milk or coconut milk), my soap is solid within a couple of hours and I can unmold with success. I use acrylic tubes for mold sprayed with PAM to help release. I wonder if the mold material, wood v. acrylic has anything to do with a slower solidification time. I usually make 2 pd. batches of soap.

I feel like it was the tall skinny wood mold I used, it's 2.5" wide and 3.5" deep, so the top part that was exposed was cool and hard...that's why I thought it was ready, lol, SURPRISE!

 

[Dawni]

I'm no pro but with my experience, any HP soap I make that's still soft after about 12hrs post prod will always be soft, and will warp a lot, even after a long cure. I think my high humidity has to do with this too? I've rebatched some coz of this, the microwave seems to aid in hardening soap lol

If I use 3:1 water like most recommend for HP I don't end up with hard bars. So I've since been experimenting with less. I set my calculator to give me 2.8:1 most of the time but only mix 2:1 and leave the rest of the water for after the cook IF I still need it. Sometimes I use all of it, most times less. If I'm using yogurt for fluidity I don't usually put in this reserved water anymore.

My last few batches were made this way and I'm happy with the results. Time will tell about the warping, but so far so good.

 

[kelly2019]

I'm no pro but with my experience, any HP soap I make that's still soft after about 12hrs post prod will always be soft, and will warp a lot, even after a long cure. I think my high humidity has to do with this too? I've rebatched some coz of this, the microwave seems to aid in hardening soap lol

If I use 3:1 water like most recommend for HP I don't end up with hard bars. So I've since been experimenting with less. I set my calculator to give me 2.8:1 most of the time but only mix 2:1 and leave the rest of the water for after the cook IF I still need it. Sometimes I use all of it, most times less. If I'm using yogurt for fluidity I don't usually put in this reserved water anymore.

My last few batches were made this way and I'm happy with the results. Time will tell about the warping, but so far so good.

Interesting! I'm going to try different water ratios as well.
Funny thing, I had a NIGHTMARE last night after reading about warping and shrinking using more fluid in the process....lol
I dreamed that I went to check on my curing bars, I have only small batches of 1-2 pounds, but maybe8-10 batches I'm watching.
Anyhoo.... in the dream, I went to check the bars, and there were only dried up rocks and bits of soap left laying around. hahaha!

Hoping I don't have any more nightmares.