Hot Process Issues

[Kcryss]

Hoping someone can help.

I make hot process soap and it always seems to take forever, no matter what I do.

This last batch, I heated the oils to 200F, mixed the lye and let it cool down to 200 and mixed the lye with the oils while still hot.

Got to trace within a few minutes and applesauce stage not long after. From that point on, it slows to a crawl and doesn't hit vaseline stage until nearly 2 hrs later.

Temp never dropped below 170 to whole time. I kept thinking I was crazy and even did two zap tests during mash potato stage ... thinking that maybe it was done and just didn't look like it. I used plastic wrap the entire time and kept it covered.

I use a crockpot on low and finally turned it up to high to get it finished.

By the time it was in mash potato stage, it was getting too dry. So I heated a little water to boiling and stirred it in to help.

After it finally finished, I added warned coconut milk and yogurt once it dropped down to about 160.

The soap was very very fluid - I assume that was due to adding water.

I don't know if it's the altitude here ... although it's much lower then I was 6 months ago. It's only about 4k here. Maybe the crockpot I'm using?

Thanks for any help/insight anyone can provide.

Here's the recipe and a picture of the soap:

 

[DeeAnna]

Can't see the recipe very well, so I can't comment on that.

What I am wondering is why are you thinking you have to see that vaseline stage? Why not stop at thick trace, turn off the heat, put a lid on it, walk away for 15 minutes, and see what you get? You might be surprised.

IMO, you are borderline soaping on the edge of hot -- you're risking a volcano with those high temps -- but the fats should be saponified in well under a half hour. Heck, even at 160-180 F, the HP batches I do are done in 1/2 hour or thereabouts. But I'm interested in zap free, not visual stages, so my priorities are different.

 

[cmzaha]

If and when I do hp I mine will be zap free in approx 20 min. I do not worry about stages. I agree with DeeAnna you are really risking volcanos with the temperature you are soaping at.

 

[Dawni]

My soaps cook between 15-20mins tops (after trace), and I soap on high with lots of stirring in intervals. I turn my pot off at around 85% gel and let it sit while I prepare it for superfat, colors n stuff. I think once my soap cooked in less than 10mins n had me scrambling for my additives.

I don't know what temps they reach, but my oils are heating up on low in my slow cooker while I measure n mix my lye solution and it gets added straight after. Then I SB til medium trace. Never takes long. And I've never had a volcano.

I agree though, waiting for all the stages in all recipes will result in overcooked soap coz some just skip a couple and some go straight to gel lol I've not checked for zap in so long too since I know it'll continue saponifying in my mold and it'll be zap free by the time I unmold. Unless of course I made a mistake somewhere in the measurements.

Here are some tips I put together when I was newer than now lol and there's more from others in there, if you're interested.

Your soap looks fine btw, but if you added too much water you'll have to cure this a bit longer than the usual 4-6wks before it stops being spongy, and be prepared for warped bars.

 

[Arimara]

I'm lazy when I HP. I keep that crockpot on low so I only stir occasionally, if inclined to do so. I still have fully saponified soap in under an hour. From that recipe, it looks fine though i have never used canola oil. It should turn into soap much sooner than two hours, especially with those high temperatures you're using.

 

[Kcryss]

Can't see the recipe very well, so I can't comment on that.

What I am wondering is why are you thinking you have to see that vaseline stage? Why not stop at thick trace, turn off the heat, put a lid on it, walk away for 15 minutes, and see what you get? You might be surprised.

IMO, you are borderline soaping on the edge of hot -- you're risking a volcano with those high temps -- but the fats should be saponified in well under a half hour. Heck, even at 160-180 F, the HP batches I do are done in 1/2 hour or thereabouts. But I'm interested in zap free, not visual stages, so my priorities are different.

I guess I assumed that each stage is just part of the process. At about 1.5 hrs I did the zap test and it zapped me ... so I waited another 15 minutes or so and did it again. Again, zapped. That's when I finally turned the crockpot to high and checked again after about another 15 minutes. It didn't really look like vaseline at that point, but I didn't get zapped so added the coconut milk and yogurt once it cooled a bit.

After trace, I covered the pot with plastic wrap and watched/waited. I expected a volcano, which did come after about 8 minutes. I stirred it down and waited again. Got a 2nd small volcano. stirred, covered, waited ... no more volcano's at this point. This is when it slowed to a crawl. I had bubbling around the edges, the crock was on low but nothing else. I did stir about every 15 minutes. Maybe too much stirring ... I don't know.

If and when I do hp I mine will be zap free in approx 20 min. I do not worry about stages. I agree with DeeAnna you are really risking volcanos with the temperature you are soaping at.

This was actually the first time I used these temps. I was was really just trying to get it to move along a little faster then previous batches. I expected the volcano's so never left the area and never took my eyes off the crockpot.

If I've learned nothing else from this forum, it's that safety always matters.

My soaps cook between 15-20mins tops (after trace), and I soap on high with lots of stirring in intervals. I turn my pot off at around 85% gel and let it sit while I prepare it for superfat, colors n stuff. I think once my soap cooked in less than 10mins n had me scrambling for my additives.

I don't know what temps they reach, but my oils are heating up on low in my slow cooker while I measure n mix my lye solution and it gets added straight after. Then I SB til medium trace. Never takes long. And I've never had a volcano.

I agree though, waiting for all the stages in all recipes will result in overcooked soap coz some just skip a couple and some go straight to gel lol I've not checked for zap in so long too since I know it'll continue saponifying in my mold and it'll be zap free by the time I unmold. Unless of course I made a mistake somewhere in the measurements.

Here are some tips I put together when I was newer than now lol and there's more from others in there, if you're interested.

Your soap looks fine btw, but if you added too much water you'll have to cure this a bit longer than the usual 4-6wks before it stops being spongy, and be prepared for warped bars.

Thanks for the tips!

The bars are already had. I made the soap late Saturday and they did seem to take a little longer then normal, but they are hard now and luckily not warped.

I'm lazy when I HP. I keep that crockpot on low so I only stir occasionally, if inclined to do so. I still have fully saponified soap in under an hour. From that recipe, it looks fine though i have never used canola oil. It should turn into soap much sooner than two hours, especially with those high temperatures you're using.

I agree ... just can't figure out why it doesn't.

Maybe it's the lye I'm using? I just received a new batch of lye yesterday so I'm going to try the new one in the next batch.

Based on the feedback here, I don't think the issue is altitude, or crockpot, or temps ... so maybe it's the lye?

 

[Dawni]

If the problem persists even with the new lye then maybe it's the cooker? Maybe low is too low?

Thanks for the tips!

The bars are already had. I made the soap late Saturday and they did seem to take a little longer then normal, but they are hard now and luckily not warped.

You're welcome.

3 days is too soon to tell warping... Check again in 3wks and let us know

 

[Kcryss]

If the problem persists even with the new lye then maybe it's the cooker? Maybe low is too low?


You're welcome.

3 days is too soon to tell warping... Check again in 3wks and let us know

LoL, Ok, will report back in 3 weeks.

 

[soapface]

This thread has been helpful to me as I got fed up of my CP batches seizing due to the fragrance oils I have and decided to just do HP. In my first attempt I wasn't seeing the 'vaseline stage' after 1 hour so I googled and saw this thread. I'm doing mine on the hob as I don't have a crock pot. As advised above I took the pot off the heat and as it cooled and it firmed up and started to turn translucent. I added the fragrance oil, stirred it in and poured it into the mold. I was very happy with the end result.

Mine was cooking at 90-100C (194-212F). According to the above comments this is too hot? What do people recommend instead? I couldn't find any actual temperature recommendations because every recipe on the internet uses a crockpot on the low setting.

 

[Kcryss]

This thread has been helpful to me as I got fed up of my CP batches seizing due to the fragrance oils I have and decided to just do HP. In my first attempt I wasn't seeing the 'vaseline stage' after 1 hour so I googled and saw this thread. I'm doing mine on the hob as I don't have a crock pot. As advised above I took the pot off the heat and as it cooled and it firmed up and started to turn translucent. I added the fragrance oil, stirred it in and poured it into the mold. I was very happy with the end result.

Mine was cooking at 90-100C (194-212F). According to the above comments this is too hot? What do people recommend instead? I couldn't find any actual temperature recommendations because every recipe on the internet uses a crockpot on the low setting.

I have a hard time keeping it below 200, so I just go with it. Lol
I wouldn't let it go any higher and be sure to watch it very close. I usually mix my lye water when oils hit a out 170 or so, wait for the lye to cool down to at least 180, then add to the oils.
I've learned a lot on the last 4 years. Now I remove the crock from heat when I get to the "puffy" stage. I don't know if this is what others call mashed potato stage, but it's towards the end, everything finally comes together, gets a little translucent, then starts puffing up. It isn't like a volcano, just poofy. From here I just let it cool down so I can put in my additives. While cooling down it gets very translucent.