Honey transformation in soap

[Obsidian]

Can I ask why sugars in soap increase bubbles. If they are undergoing a reaction with the lye what new compound is responsible for the increased bubbly lather.

It has been 40 years since I took chemistry.

If I remember right and its been awhile since I've read up on it. Its not so much that sugars increase lather but it helps make the bubbles tougher so they last longer, giving you more lather in the hand so to speak.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Good memory @Obsidian! This article at the Scientific American website says glycerin and sugar slow down water evaporation in soap bubbles.

 

[Kcryss]

I use honey mixed with distilled water and warmed up to add after saponification in HP. I have also mixed it with apple cider for HP. Truthfully I haven't noticed much difference between using honey, sugar, or maple syrup in HP.

I probably could have worded that better. "Doesn't a lot of this go out the window with hot process and adding honey etc. after the lye and oils have been saponified?" The comment was in reference to the changes taking place with honey during the saponification process. Adding after the cook in HP takes away the chemical transformation that happens with CP when adding honey ... and anything else really. IMHO of course and the reason I like HP.

 

[TheGecko]

I don't think oils and butter are the best example in this case since we make soap from oils.

They are the best example since the are the very foundation of soap and if they were all exactly the same, we’d all only being using one. But they’re not and so we have an abundance to choose from with their own properties to make the kind of soaps were want to make.

I don''t cry I am lied for something else but adding honey and other sugars to soap and claiming that the soap have properties due to the additives.

I have been watching soap making videos for well over a year...hundreds and hundreds of videos from a good 50 soap makers from around the world and I can’t recall any single soap maker caking such claims. One could perhaps argue that by describing the properties/benefits of an ingredient or ingredients, they are implying that their soap now contains those properties, but then again how do we know that they don’t...with absolute certainty? I mean, common sense says you’re not really going to get much benefits from something that is only on your skin for a few minutes at best. And common sense also says that there is a big difference between spreading a tablespoon of honey on my face and a tablespoon of honey that has been displeased in 400 oz of liquid.

I suggest better investigation before adding something to a soap. As it is made with Essential oils, Fragrance oils and colorants.

I agree...it’s why we make test batches and use it on ourselves first. And I think that the majority of responsible soap makers aren’t using ingredients found under the kitchen sink or in the garage.

Sorbitol and Erythritol are stable under alkaline conditions and have same properties to fructose and glucose. Why don't we use that ingredients?

Because they sound like chemicals while everyone knows that honey is nature-made by bees.

 

[Nona'sFarm]

I am curious @Baqn, what had you hoped to achieve by adding honey as a soap ingredient?

 

[Baqn]

I am curious @Baqn, what had you hoped to achieve by adding honey as a soap ingredient?

Same as you.

 

[Primrose]

I add honey to my soap because it increases bubbles, gives a faint scent and gives colour. Honey, milk and oatmeal is a staple favourite. I don't add honey thinking it's going to do all of the wonderful things you list. I don't want raw honey on my skin, ew. I'm not really sure what the point of your semi aggressive post is

 

[Nona'sFarm]

I am curious @Baqn, what had you hoped to achieve by adding honey as a soap ingredient?

Same as you.

So, @Baqn , are you comfortable with using honey, now that you've seen the responses?

 

[Baqn]

Nope. I will try substituting all honey I use in soap with something else. There are other options. I don't see any reason to keep using honey if there is no honey in the soap.

 

[user 29721]

Same as you.

OP - you overthink the concept. By replacing honey with something else -- what is the goal? Primary constituents of honey are glucose and fructose, replacing with more complex carbs (refined sugar, maple syrup, starch) in the presence of lye would lead to breaking the sugar chain and forming same simple sugars. You are back to square one where you started.
To answer your original question of what happens to sugars in the presence of lye - refer to the book you referenced yourself https://books.google.bg/books?id=xteiARU46SQC&lpg=PR1&hl=bg&pg=PR1#v=onepage&q=alkaline&f=false page 270, Chapter Caramelization.

 

[Baqn]

@geniash one way of destruction of sucrose is breaking the link between glucose and fructose - right. That is the main problem of sugar production - to keep the sugar intact after treatment with calcium hydroxide (mild alkali). In strong alkaline conditions ways of degradation of sugar are more than just braking the link. Sugar behaves as weak acid due to many hydroxyl groups, also that hydroxyl groups are changed.
Caramelisation is something else. It happens at temperature about 160*C/320*F. That temperature can't be achieved in soap or lye solution due to the presence of water (which boils at 100*C). Caramelisation can also occure when you mix sugar and strong oxidizers like concentrated sulfutic acid, oleum, concentrated nitric acid.
About the substitution of honey. Thr main purpous honey is added is to get better bubbles and moisturise skin. There are other substances that possess the same properties and are not sugars but very similar to them.