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earlene

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The batch that I made for testing was 3ozs each of metabisulfate and thiosulfate in 10ozs of water. DeeAnna gives a better breakdown of the math in her post.

I only used distilled water for diluting the ingredients.

If you want to warm the water up to around 100°F it will help the metabisulfate dissolve faster and thiosulfate will dissolve quickly at any temperature.

Okay I looked back at DeeAnna's post #88 on page 5 of this thread (Yesterday I kept looking for it, but for some reason it eluded me.) Okay, then the ratio was: 3:3:10, so the percentages come out to 18.75% each of the Na-Metatsulfite & Na-Thiosulfate and 52.5% distilled water.

OR

18.75% or 3 parts sodium metabisulfite
18.75% or 3 parts sodium thiosulfate
62.5% or 10 parts distilled water


I will heat distilled water to 100° F first for faster dilution

Thank you, Todd.

Can you clarify for me regarding questions #4 & #5 I had? I am still a bit unsure which you used &/or why. I was hoping for all the information in one summary because searching back and forth through all 6 pages (so far) of this thread is getting cumbersome and I keep losing track of things. I don't want to make a mistake that I have to then toss out or try to re-batch. I'm sorry to put you on the spot, it's just how my mind works.


4. What is your chosen dilution for sodium metabisulfite alone? And why?
I think you tried 2 different dilutions. (Your Post #34 - was that about sodium metabisulfite? 0.25 ounces to 1 ounce water? 25% dilution?) (Your Post #36 50% solution? But you also mixed a 60% solution; did you ever try it?) In your post #41, you said you would make a 30% solution) So I'm wondering which dilution you have settled on as best for only sodium metasulfite.

5. What is your chosen dilution for sodium thiosulfate alone?
You settled on a 25% solution per your post #67. Why? Was that based on trying a 50% solution and seeing no difference in the results between the two? I may just go with that because of the OP's link to the DIY VS.
 

Todd Ziegler

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Okay I looked back at DeeAnna's post #88 on page 5 of this thread (Yesterday I kept looking for it, but for some reason it eluded me.) Okay, then the ratio was: 3:3:10, so the percentages come out to 18.75% each of the Na-Metatsulfite & Na-Thiosulfate and 52.5% distilled water.

OR

18.75% or 3 parts sodium metabisulfite
18.75% or 3 parts sodium thiosulfate
62.5% or 10 parts distilled water


I will heat distilled water to 100° F first for faster dilution

Thank you, Todd.

Can you clarify for me regarding questions #4 & #5 I had? I am still a bit unsure which you used &/or why. I was hoping for all the information in one summary because searching back and forth through all 6 pages (so far) of this thread is getting cumbersome and I keep losing track of things. I don't want to make a mistake that I have to then toss out or try to re-batch. I'm sorry to put you on the spot, it's just how my mind works.


4. What is your chosen dilution for sodium metabisulfite alone? And why?
I think you tried 2 different dilutions. (Your Post #34 - was that about sodium metabisulfite? 0.25 ounces to 1 ounce water? 25% dilution?) (Your Post #36 50% solution? But you also mixed a 60% solution; did you ever try it?) In your post #41, you said you would make a 30% solution) So I'm wondering which dilution you have settled on as best for only sodium metasulfite.

5. What is your chosen dilution for sodium thiosulfate alone?
You settled on a 25% solution per your post #67. Why? Was that based on trying a 50% solution and seeing no difference in the results between the two? I may just go with that because of the OP's link to the DIY VS.
Sorry for the confusion, I misunderstood what you were asking and I really don't mind answering your questions. I'm off work waiting for surgery, so I have plenty of time. If you would like, I can send you a personal message with what you need to know.

Question 4. I chose 30% for the metabisulfate because that is how much was being used by crafters choice in their VS and percentages higher than that get more difficult to dissolve. Also according to the patent that I found for VS also used 30%.

Question 5. I went with 30% for the thiosulfate because, again, that is what was being used in the crafters choice VS.

Thiosulfate can be dissolved at 1:1 rate and all the way up to 2:1 but research showed that there was no reason to use that much.
 

earlene

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Thank you, Todd.

Good luck with your surgery.

I got your PM, and greatly appreciate your clarifications. I will plan on doing some testing next week, I believe.
 

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Did you use the sodium metabisulfate or sodium thiosulfate or both of them together. Even as a small percentage, the metabisulfate should curl your toes when you smell it up close. The thiosulfate really does not have an odor to it.
Hi Todd, I used a mix of both and had no obvious smell. I’ll check the product again but I’m sure they were 100% - one crystals and the other a fine powder.
 

Todd Ziegler

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Here are some updated photos of the homemade VCS. I took the pictures today and then I put the pour date underneath them.

I know that these are early results but a couple of the soaps have actually improved. I think in the short term it's going very well but time will tell.

Forgot the pictures
 

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earlene

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That's pretty impressive, Todd!

At exactly 28 days from creation to this update, the
Cotton Candy soap made on 10/25/2020 looks unchanged.
1606064962204.png
It's the only one I could find a before & after picture for, but it's the oldest, so the quite exciting.

You stated you used the solution that was equal parts metabisulfate and distilled water at a 1:1 mix of FO to DIY VS.
50/50 metabisulfate solution. I'm using a cotton candy FO from WSP with a 9% vanillin.
And your FO usage in recipe was 6%
I am going to use a 1:1 mix with the FO which will be 1.8ozs of each. It says it darkens to dark brown. I'm using a synthetic white mica for half and a electric blue for the other half.
My recipe is 54% lard, 20% Coconut oil, 10% palm oil, 10% safflower oil high oleic, 6% castor oil and Sodium lactate.
For each of the ones picture today, did you use the same VS formula, or were there any differences? I am curious how the mix of the two chemicals are performing.

The one made on 11/9/2020 has a pinkish tinge in the white area surrounding the orange/yellow color. Is that new? It sort of looks like color bleed, but it's the wrong color. I didn't find a before picture, so not sure what it started out looking like. Which DIY VS solution did you use with this one?
1606067138953.png



My agenda for tomorrow is to start the DIY VS tests here; when I get it started I'll post updates here, if that's okay.
 

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So I finally made a batch with Sodium Metabisulphate. I decided to use the sodium metabisulphate as a percentage of my fragrance oil because it would be easier to apply that percentage regardless of whatever percentage of water or liquid I use for any given batch.

This experiment used the Sodium Metabisulphate at 30% of my Fragrance oil, dissolved in part of the vinegar for my batch, added to the fragrance oil. The mixture was then added to my batch.

The fragrance oil was Cashmere Cedar with 12% Vanillin from The Flaming Candle at 6% of my 500g batch. FO used was 30g and sodium metabisulphate at 30% was 9g.

I am impressed with the sodium metabisulphate at 30%. The soap is a nice yellow color, a little lighter than the color of unrefined Cocoa butter. Attached is a sample without the Sodium Metabisulphate.

It would have been nice to try the Sodium Thiosulphate too but I couldn’t find it in Canada and didn’t want to pay the shipping from the US. Someday soon....
Did you use the Sodium Metbisulphate only? Turns out the other ingredient on Etsy was $8.50 + $8.50 shipping but it was only 90 grams. That seems expensive given the small quantity so I didn't order it. If I can use just the one that would be ideal. Thanks.
 

Saponificarian

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Did you use the Sodium Metbisulphate only? Turns out the other ingredient on Etsy was $8.50 + $8.50 shipping but it was only 90 grams. That seems expensive given the small quantity so I didn't order it. If I can use just the one that would be ideal. Thanks.
Yes, just the Sodium Metabisulphate.
 

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Todd, all of your soaps looks fantastic! Can't thank you enough for figuring this out and for sharing all your experiments.
 

earlene

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For an hour or three, I worked on formulating a testing plan and it became so intricate, my mind needed diversion.

I feel a need to design a very stringent testing criteria with at least 3 variants of solutions, with controls to compare against, rigidly calculated & documented and so on and so forth. My gosh, you'd think I was planning on setting up protocols and procedure manuals and lab books and all that stuff. Ah well, it is a result of my training and previous professions. Anyway, I had to take a break and concentrate on something else.


I'll get back to it later tonight or tomorrow after my hair cut. Tonight I am planning on staying up until it snows so I still have a few hours. I want to introduce Kitty Baby to snow & it's only going to last a little while if it lasts at all.
 

Todd Ziegler

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That's pretty impressive, Todd!

At exactly 28 days from creation to this update, the
Cotton Candy soap made on 10/25/2020 looks unchanged.
View attachment 51779
It's the only one I could find a before & after picture for, but it's the oldest, so the quite exciting.

You stated you used the solution that was equal parts metabisulfate and distilled water at a 1:1 mix of FO to DIY VS.
And your FO usage in recipe was 6%


For each of the ones picture today, did you use the same VS formula, or were there any differences? I am curious how the mix of the two chemicals are performing.

The one made on 11/9/2020 has a pinkish tinge in the white area surrounding the orange/yellow color. Is that new? It sort of looks like color bleed, but it's the wrong color. I didn't find a before picture, so not sure what it started out looking like. Which DIY VS solution did you use with this one?
View attachment 51783



My agenda for tomorrow is to start the DIY VS tests here; when I get it started I'll post updates here, if that's okay.
Let me clear up what I meant by 50/50. I made separate solutions for the first test batch. Each had 30% of the metabisulfate and thiosulfate, I then mixed equal parts of each solution and that is where the 50/50 comes from.
All the other batches have the 3,3:1 solution. With a 1:1 VS/FO. You can't see it in the new cotton candy picture but the darkning has actually lightened up.

The other picture that you pointed out is just the red that I used for the color.

I have not used the two ingredients separately. I have always used the two together. Now some of the FO's that I have used don't have any vanillin in them but they do alter they do discolor the soap. In the FO's without any vanillin I used 50% VCS of the FO. So if the FO was 4ozs I used 2ozs of VCS.
Todd, all of your soaps looks fantastic! Can't thank you enough for figuring this out and for sharing all your experiments.
You're welcome

I am going to try and make a new post that includes all the pictures together, along with usage amounts.
 

Todd Ziegler

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Did you use the Sodium Metbisulphate only? Turns out the other ingredient on Etsy was $8.50 + $8.50 shipping but it was only 90 grams. That seems expensive given the small quantity so I didn't order it. If I can use just the one that would be ideal. Thanks.
I have not used the metabisulfate by itself. However I think someone else in this thread has but the thread has gotten so long that I am going to do a new summary thread. This way we get all the information that has been collected into one post.
 

Todd Ziegler

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Yes, just the Sodium Metabisulphate.
I really think that using just the metabisulfate by itself will give you the same results. It is my opinion that the thiosulfate is meant for MP soap and not CP soap. However I have not tried the thiosulfate by itself. I am going to do post a summary thread today sometime and if you are interested in contributing to it, just pm me and I will explain more.
 

Todd Ziegler

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I was just wondering the other day, about what kind of impact this will have for the hobbyist soap maker, all the way up to those who sell the soap they make.

Will it be a game changer for some, will it allow some people to use VCS now, where they couldn't before because of the cost.

I was also wondering how fast this will spread to the soap making community at large and outside of this forum. Or will it go no further than this forum. Just some thinking.
 
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