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Homemade Vanilla Stabilizer?

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Todd Ziegler

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That’s great, Todd! So appreciate you doing all the heavy lifting on this one.
You are all very welcome. I love figuring out how to make something on my own.
Here's the batch from last night. In person, it is whiter than the picture but not a bright white. However I'm not sure if the off white color is being caused by the vanillin or other FO ingredients. I think it may be my mica. I'm using a different white mica than I used before the experiment. Plus the chocolate FO was very orange /red color and that could be affecting it.

I will know a little bit more tomorrow, when the test batch is done.

The picture is bad. That band at the bottom, is not on the soap in person. I have a new photo shooting box and the lights are not bright enough.
 

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dibbles

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Thanks for all of this Todd. The initial picture of the orange chocolate looks promising for sure.

eta: also meant to say that the soap is very pretty!
 

AliOop

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The soap is definitely very pretty!

@Jersey Girl thanks for the heads up on that! I’ve been thinking of getting a respirator to use when master batching my lye anyway (and for being outside during fire season, too).
 

Jersey Girl

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The soap is definitely very pretty!

@Jersey Girl thanks for the heads up on that! I’ve been thinking of getting a respirator to use when master batching my lye anyway (and for being outside during fire season, too).
Definitely get one. I was thinking of you when I read it. Apparently it is a very fine powder which is easy to inhale unknowingly.
 

Jackie Tobey

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Last night I made a chocolate FO soap with 6% vanillin using the 50/50 metabisulfate mix.

Today I'm going to use a 30% thiosulfate, 30% metabisulfate solution. I guess that it is a 3,3:1

I believe that the suppliers who sell VCS are using this blend. Because when I mixed the 2 together it had a very slightly green hue to it, which is exactly the color of the VCS I use from aztec candle. It is still clear, just a tint of green if you like. However I am not sure what ratio they are using.

I'm going to use a FO with 9% vanillin that turns dark brown today and I will post those pictures tomorrow.
How are you dissolving the metabisulfate? 1:1 with water or different ratio. And the thiosulfate. I have just gotten in the thiosulfate and ordered the metabisulfate. I would like to try this and will also post results.
 

Todd Ziegler

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How are you dissolving the metabisulfate? 1:1 with water or different ratio. And the thiosulfate. I have just gotten in the thiosulfate and ordered the metabisulfate. I would like to try this and will also post results.
I dissolve the metabisulfate at 30% of what ever amount you want to make. For example, 10 ounces of water and 3 ounce of metabisulfate.

For the sodium thiosulfate, you can dissolve it at 1:1 but I settled on a 25% solution.

For the 2 together, I dissolved 30% of each with 10 ounces of water.

3oz of thiosulfate and 3oz of metabisulfate in 10 ounces of water. I hope this makes sense to you. I'm terrible with ratios.
 

Jackie Tobey

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I dissolve the metabisulfate at 30% of what ever amount you want to make. For example, 10 ounces of water and 3 ounce of metabisulfate.

For the sodium thiosulfate, you can dissolve it at 1:1 but I settled on a 25% solution.

For the 2 together, I dissolved 30% of each with 10 ounces of water.

3oz of thiosulfate and 3oz of metabisulfate in 10 ounces of water. I hope this makes sense to you. I'm terrible with ratios.
[/QUOTE
Thanks. Will post results as I have them.
 

Todd Ziegler

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Here are some early results from the sodium thiosulfate/metabisulfate.

I didn't use much white in this soap but it is much whiter than the previous batches. It's definitely not an off white.

The FO is a 9% vanillin that goes dark brown. So early results on the combo are promising, at least I think so.
 

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AliOop

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That looks fantastic, Todd -- and I'm referring to the soap colors and design, not just the effectiveness of the homemade VS.

A couple of questions which you may have answered previously, so forgive me if these are repeats:

1. Did you notice any effect on how the recipe behaved, i.e., faster, slower?

2. Did you reduce your overall water/liquid in proportion to the amount of water in the VS solution?

3. You used 10 parts water to 3 parts thiosulfate to 3 parts metabisulfate, correct?

4. Can you estimate the cost (per oz or per gram) for the homemade solution?

Cannot thank you enough for this. I love scents with vanillin in them, but had decided after my first VS purchase that I would probably rarely use them due to the VS cost, and because there is only so much brown soap that I want to have around.
 

Todd Ziegler

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1. The soap never misbehaved with either of the FO's that I used and I used the same recipe

2. I didn't reduce my water in the recipe

3. Correct on the amounts

4. I paid $10 for a pound of the metabisulfate and for the thiosulfate I paid $9 for a pound. I used 7.5ozs of each for a 25oz bottle, which is close to $15 for 2 pounds of finished product. I was paying $13 a pound including shipping. So I am saving $5 per pound. I know for many of others they are paying a lot more for one pound.
 

Todd Ziegler

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I'm doing another test today, which I probably should have done at the beginning. I'm doing an almost color free batch. I swirled in a little blue just because I like a little color.
 

Jackie Tobey

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I dissolve the metabisulfate at 30% of what ever amount you want to make. For example, 10 ounces of water and 3 ounce of metabisulfate.

For the sodium thiosulfate, you can dissolve it at 1:1 but I settled on a 25% solution.

For the 2 together, I dissolved 30% of each with 10 ounces of water.

3oz of thiosulfate and 3oz of metabisulfate in 10 ounces of water. I hope this makes sense to you. I'm terrible with ratios.
Can these be dissolved in the water and stored in solution together to bears for different batch’s of soap? Like you do with EDTA or TD.
 

Todd Ziegler

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Can these be dissolved in the water and stored in solution together to bears for different batch’s of soap? Like you do with EDTA or TD.
Yes they can but it evaporates very easily, so I put a cork in the neck of the bottle and then put the cap on. You can use either a rubber or natural cork, doesn't really matter. You can also use a piece of wax paper over the threads then screw the cap on. You just need to create a good seal to prevent evaporation.

Here is the test batch that I made without a lot of color. You can notice the big difference between the gelled and no gelling. It appears that gelling makes a difference even when using VCS.

The next batch that I make, I will pour off some batter without the VCS and see what difference it really makes.

There is nothing showing in the recipe.
Sorry. Probably because I did not make it a public recipe. Here it is below.Screen Shot 2020-11-05 at 11.57.27 AM.png

Can someone take a look at the recipe I am going to use for my latest batch. From what I have been reading I am a little concerned with the amount of cocoa butter but I really like the numbers this recipe is giving me. This will be my 6th batch and I am looking to try a 2 color funnel pour.
Sorry. That link wont work because my recipe is not public. See below response for the recipe.

This has happened with multiple recipes, but the most recent and most ugly one was:
450g Coconut oil (30%)
215g great value shortening(17.5%)
280g lard (18.5%)
555g olive oil

436g frozen goat milk
218g NaOH (bottle claims 99% purity)

I weighed out 287g of soap batter and added 10g Sandlewood Vanilla FO from Brambleberry.

I actually bothered to check the temperature on the oils and lye right before i mixed them and they were both between 100F and 110F before mixing. I poured the batter into some silicone cupcake molds and left them on my 65F porch to solidify for a few hours before bringing them indoors to finish saponification sitting on top of my refrigerator. My house runs around 70F this time of year.

In the pictures, I show one of the soaps uncut and freshly cut open. On the outside you can see a couple white patches. I assume from DeeAnna’s comments that those could be butterfat soap bits. You can also see lots of dark splotches and specks. Those are what I assumed were poorly mixed patches of fragrance oil. On the freshly cut face I can see light tan specks (just barely a different color from the main soap) that I assumed were bits of FO. What do you think is going on here?

F5C921F8-57B9-4C1C-9974-95895C90D23B.jpeg9B694A78-6D9F-4F3E-91D2-32AD20461A51.jpeg96661ED1-77AC-4AD9-B52D-4557F4B93DB9.jpeg

I should add that I have zap tested all the different colors of soap in the bar and have never gotten a zap.

This was also a batch where I hand stirred in the FO. I also managed to be patient add the lye to the milk slowly enough that I didn’t get that dark orange burnt milk color in my lye solution before adding it to my oils.
It will be a while before I can make soap again to test a no milk soap and know for sure what is happening, so i hope you experts can find something in these pictures that can satisfy this cat’s horrible curiosity!
 

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Todd Ziegler

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WOW is that some major difference!
Yes it is but since I don't have a VCS free bar to match it with, I'm not sure of exactly what is going on. I have some new FO's coming from natures garden that have 9% and 12% vanillin in them.

In order to properly evaluate the homemade VCS, we need several people trying it, with FO's from different sources.

I am reasonably confident of the effectiveness of the homemade VCS but I still have some nagging questions about the role that gelling is playing in the process. That is why I hope others will join in on the testing.
 

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