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Homemade Vanilla Stabilizer?

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AliOop

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Do any of you know whether the amount of the water used actually matters, as opposed to the amount of the thiosulphate in relation to the FO? Unless a certain amount of water is needed for dispersal, it would seem to me that making a higher concentration might be more effective. @dibbles, was it you who said that you use a VS:FO ratio of 1:1 or more?
 

dibbles

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@AliOop - yes, I use VS:FO 1:1. I think a lot of people do, but you may have read it in a post of mine.
 

Todd Ziegler

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I did some more research and found that Sodium Metabisulfite is another ingredient that I have found while reading through the patent that I posted above. It is an ingredient used in wine making. I'm going to get some today and see if I get that same smell from the VCS I am using now. I also want to see if this can be combined with the sodium thiosulfate.
 

Jersey Girl

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Yes I read that part and they could be right.

The picture is exactly what it looks like and it dissolves very easily in water.

The VCS I get from Aztec candle also smells horrible but it's possible that there could be two formulas that are used but without them disclosing what it is, we won't know for sure.
Ok...I was confused beca one type said pentanate
Do any of you know whether the amount of the water used actually matters, as opposed to the amount of the thiosulphate in relation to the FO? Unless a certain amount of water is needed for dispersal, it would seem to me that making a higher concentration might be more effective. @dibbles, was it you who said that you use a VS:FO ratio of 1:1 or more?
im curious about this too. If as @Todd Ziegler reports, the thiosulphate dissolves well in less water it would make sense to me to use less so there is less excess in your batter. But then you would need to calculate a usage rate of the more concentrated solution...my head hurts...these kind of calculations stress me out. Lol.
 

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Something curious is that the thiosulfate causes the water to drop in temperature. I can’t remember exactly but I think by about 10 degrees. I believe I included it in the video. I wonder if less water would mean more cooling.
 

Todd Ziegler

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I have been doing more research and I am going to try and get some sodium sulfite today because I believe that may be the ingredient that we are looking for.

Ok...I was confused beca one type said pentanate

im curious about this too. If as @Todd Ziegler reports, the thiosulphate dissolves well in less water it would make sense to me to use less so there is less excess in your batter. But then you would need to calculate a usage rate of the more concentrated solution...my head hurts...these kind of calculations stress me out. Lol.
3 ounces of the thiosulfate definitely dissolved with ease in 1 ounce of water. However I am not convinced that this is the ingredient we are after. I believe that sodium sulfite might be the one we are after. I hope to have some for testing by Monday at the latest.
 

AliOop

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That patent stuff was really interesting, @Todd Ziegler! I don’t have a science background so some of it was way over my head. I did see that there are several sulfites that might be combined for the solution, so I appreciate you investigating the other possibilities.

I also wasn’t sure if the reference to phenylacetaldehyde was in relation to the invented product, or to the results. But my thought was that most aldehydes smell pretty sharp and strong. So could phenylacetaldehyde be the sharp smell we get from the premixed stuff?
 

Todd Ziegler

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That patent stuff was really interesting, @Todd Ziegler! I don’t have a science background so some of it was way over my head. I did see that there are several sulfites that might be combined for the solution, so I appreciate you investigating the other possibilities.

I also wasn’t sure if the reference to phenylacetaldehyde was in relation to the invented product, or to the results. But my thought was that most aldehydes smell pretty sharp and strong. So could phenylacetaldehyde be the sharp smell we get from the premixed stuff?
It could be but my nose smells a more sulfur scent. I will no more tomorrow when I get the sodium sulfite.
 

AliOop

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Oh, I forgot to mention that something I read in the patent information indicated that the VS would be less effective in the presence of citric acid.

That is important information for those who use CA in their soaps.
 

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This is awesome, I have 2 lbs of this on hand already. I can't believe I have been paying good money for vanilla color stabilizer and I could have made my own.
I'm going to try it too, I have some on hand that I used to get the green (from the pool) pout of my son's girlfriend's hair.
 

Todd Ziegler

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Oh, I forgot to mention that something I read in the patent information indicated that the VS would be less effective in the presence of citric acid.

That is important information for those who use CA in their soaps.
That I didn't see but I don't use it so I would have glanced over it.
 

Todd Ziegler

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I found the source of the horrible smell,it is sodium metabisulfate. I have not gotten a chance to see what its dissolvibilty in water is yet and I also don't know if it is combined with the sodium thiosulfate, which I doubt. I will do everything tomorrow and update the post. The only thing I know with any certainty is that it smells just like the VCS that I use right now.
 

AliOop

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Wow, great discovery, Todd! And this is the stuff used in wine-making, correct?
 

Todd Ziegler

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Wow, great discovery, Todd! And this is the stuff used in wine-making, correct?
Yes, it is used in wine making and sterilizing the equipment. I think this is what is being used in VCS's.

The VCS that I use is prone to evaporation, so my question would be, does that mean that there is a high percentage of the metabisulfate in the product or is evaporation a condition at any percentage?

I haven't made any samples yet but I thought I would seek some opinions on this.

I was only able to do a 25% solution in an ounce of water. It dissolved very quickly and it had a very strong sulfur smell like the VCS I use from Aztec candle.

I have noticed that Aztec candle carries crafters choice products but not their VCS so they might be making their own at Aztec. My question now is, why is Aztec so much cheaper than the rest. They charge $5.95 I think for 16 ounces but every place else charges a lot more. If most of the VCS for sale has that same smell, then they all must be using the same or something similar as the ingredients.

I feel like I am missing something but I don't know what. It will be a few days before I can actually test the solution because I am waiting on the FO.
 

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This is exciting to follow - in Australia we have very limited access to colour stabilisers and those available are reported to be pretty ineffective. I have some thiosulfate on order and will buy some metabisulfate as well to try.
 

Todd Ziegler

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I haven't gotten a chance to use the metabisulfate yet.

I tried a 50/50 solution and it dissolved very well. I then tried a 60% metabisulfate mix and it did dissolve, but very reluctantly.

When I get the right FO delivered, I will try a 50% mixture.
 

Todd Ziegler

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I'm making a batch right now with my 50/50 metabisulfate solution. I'm using a cotton candy FO from WSP with a 9% vanillin. I am going to use a 1:1 mix with the FO which will be 1.8ozs of each. It says it darkens to dark brown. I'm using a synthetic white mica for half and a electric blue for the other half.

My recipe is 54% lard, 20% Coconut oil, 10% palm oil, 10% safflower oil high oleic, 6% castor oil and Sodium lactate.

I should know some results later today or buy tomorrow morning. I hope it works because this could be a real boost for all soap makers.

Edit: the vanillin is 9% and not 6%.and it shades to dark brown. WSP says the safe amount is 12.5% but I only used 6%
 
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Todd Ziegler

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Here is what it looks like after 4 hours. I used white mica but the FO turned it just a little darker but nothing close to what the description of the FO says. I won't know until tomorrow what the soap in the mold did. I gelled it and now I am letting it harden. I will post pictures as soon as I cut it tomorrow.
 

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AliOop

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That's awesome for a 9% vanillin soap, Todd! It will be interesting to see if it darkens over time.

Any plans to try metabisulfate + thiosulphate? My thought was that maybe they are synergistic.
 

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I'm making a batch right now with my 50/50 metabisulfate solution. I'm using a cotton candy FO from WSP with a 9% vanillin. I am going to use a 1:1 mix with the FO which will be 1.8ozs of each. It says it darkens to dark brown. I'm using a synthetic white mica for half and a electric blue for the other half.

My recipe is 54% lard, 20% Coconut oil, 10% palm oil, 10% safflower oil high oleic, 6% castor oil and Sodium lactate.

I should know some results later today or buy tomorrow morning. I hope it works because this could be a real boost for all soap makers.

Edit: the vanillin is 9% and not 6%.and it shades to dark brown. WSP says the safe amount is 12.5% but I only used 6%
I’ve been doing a little research. Found this on a site for crafters choice vanilla stabilizer. Then I looked up disulfurous acid, disodium salt and it looks like the metabisulfate is indeed the same thing. It does list it’s percentage in the CC stabilizer as 20-30% however. I love this experiment!
 

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