Homemade Vanilla Stabilizer?

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glendam

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I have not encountered that at all. When I first tried the VCS I bought, I thought it would leave a smell like that but I have not encountered it in either the VCS or ZCS.
Good to know. Thank you! Today that chemical smell is definitely more faint, and the lavender can be smelled (it was a blend of about 5 fragrances).
 

earlene

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Todd et al, I am home again and will start on my written plan for the DIY VS testing at various strengths. After prepping this afternoon, I will begin in the morning. I had wanted to start today as it is the 1st, but with expecting Hubby home with a carload of stuff to unpack, I figured I'd best be available to help with the unpacking instead. The 2nd is a good enough date for the first soaps. I hope to get all done in one or two days, then will follow up periodically per the plan with observations. I am using only one FO and no added colors, but 3 strengths for each chemical and 3 strengths for the combo, plus Two controls consisting of one soap without any VS and One using a commercially obtainable VS for comparison, which is the BCN VS, as I have it on hand.

So today: prep.
 

Melysg25

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This is my acorn harvest (nature's garden) beer soap. Nature's garden says this fragrance colors to a dark chocolate. And this is a beer soap. And I used annatto (though not enough) for top portion and it turned out this color. I'd say your ziegler stabilizer is working quite well.

@Todd Ziegler :dance: :thumbs:
 

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violets2217

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When I cut the soap today it smelled like a perm or some hair chemical.
Did you figure out why your soap melted this way? Asking for a friend...
seriously though, I just cut a soap and bam! 💥 pow! 💥 Nasty perm smell! I did not use anything odd in my soap... like stabilizer and such. Just an oatmeal soap with some white and pink kaolin clay. Not even a fragrance oil! Plus it turned green. So odd... but on a positive note it’s not the ZSC!
 

glendam

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Did you figure out why your soap melted this way? Asking for a friend...
seriously though, I just cut a soap and bam! 💥 pow! 💥 Nasty perm smell! I did not use anything odd in my soap... like stabilizer and such. Just an oatmeal soap with some white and pink kaolin clay. Not even a fragrance oil! Plus it turned green. So odd... but on a positive note it’s not the ZSC!
I just went to smell the bars to make sure, the smell is still there but it’s faint. I can smell the other fragrances a lot better so I feel good about them now. The only thing I can think of is that I cut them while they were still at a a high alkaline Level, and that the fragrance blend didn’t like that ph. I used yellow mica and when I cut it, there were sections of bright yellow and some of pale yellow. Now they are mostly pale yellow throughout.
I had used that blend before except I had used rose instead of lavender for the floral note.
That is so odd about your soap with no fragrance. Did you use any milk instead of water? And it turned green! Have you used those clays before (same bag and all)?
 

violets2217

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Did you use any milk instead of water? And it turned green! Have you used those clays before (same bag and all)?
I did use coconut milk and it was a new bag of white kaolin clay... This has been the weirdest soap I’ve made! I thought it was gonna be the nicest creamy soap with pretty pink swirls... and I got this!
image.jpg
The chemical smell is fading already though!
 

Todd Ziegler

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This is my acorn harvest (nature's garden) beer soap. Nature's garden says this fragrance colors to a dark chocolate. And this is a beer soap. And I used annatto (though not enough) for top portion and it turned out this color. I'd say your ziegler stabilizer is working quite well.

@Todd Ziegler :dance: :thumbs:
That's great but the "Z" stands for "zigali" I just wanted to mention that because I was not the only one involved in this project.

Back to your soap, did you use beer out of the can or the freezed dried beer powder from WSP?

I did use coconut milk and it was a new bag of white kaolin clay... This has been the weirdest soap I’ve made! I thought it was gonna be the nicest creamy soap with pretty pink swirls... and I got this!
View attachment 52901
The chemical smell is fading already though!
I spoke to a friend of mine who is a gem, mineral and rock collector about the different colored clays and if they are authentic. He said that those clays more often than not, come from places where they clay is not pure. It's often mixed with different colors and other contaminates that have to be removed in order to get the color they want and the only thing different about the kaolin clays are the mineral contaminations that gives it the color. He said that even the best mining companies can't remove every contaminate and so you may have had a clay that wasn't as pure as you thought. The contaminate in the clay could have reacted with another ingredient in your soap and caused the color change. There are many minerals that can cause a green color.
 

violets2217

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I spoke to a friend of mine who is a gem, mineral and rock collector about the different colored clays and if they are authentic. He said that those clays more often than not, come from places where they clay is not pure. It's often mixed with different colors and other contaminates that have to be removed in order to get the color they want and the only thing different about the kaolin clays are the mineral contaminations that gives it the color. He said that even the best mining companies can't remove every contaminate and so you may have had a clay that wasn't as pure as you thought. The contaminate in the clay could have reacted with another ingredient in your soap and caused the color change. There are many minerals that can cause a green color.
Awesome! I love using my clays! But now it will be a surprise every time I use it! Who knows what color I’ll get! It’s not an ugly green... I guess!
Thanks for the info! And congrats on your successful ZCS creation. This post has been very intriguing. And both you and @AliOop have been sooo helpful!
 

Todd Ziegler

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Awesome! I love using my clays! But now it will be a surprise every time I use it! Who knows what color I’ll get! It’s not an ugly green... I guess!
Thanks for the info! And congrats on your successful ZCS creation. This post has been very intriguing. And both you and @AliOop have been sooo helpful!
Thank you for the kind words.

If you are buying your clay from a reputable company then you should not have to many surprises on the color of the finished soap. Just keep in mind that clays are alkaline and when mixed with an acidic ingredient compared to the alkalinity of clay, the outcome might not be what you expected.

Your particular incident is not unusual but it is also not a completely normal outcome either. Good luck.
 

Melysg25

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That's great but the "Z" stands for "zigali" I just wanted to mention that because I was not the only one involved in this project.

Back to your soap, did you use beer out of the can or the freezed dried beer powder from WSP?
I guess I should start calling it ZCS then :) whoever collaborated, y'all stumbled upon something good. I used a yuengling lager that was open and sat flat in fridge for 2-3 days. I live very near Pottsville, the home of yuengling lager so I was inspired. Lol. @Todd Ziegler
 

glendam

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I did use coconut milk and it was a new bag of white kaolin clay... This has been the weirdest soap I’ve made! I thought it was gonna be the nicest creamy soap with pretty pink swirls... and I got this!
View attachment 52901
The chemical smell is fading already though!
That is really odd! I am glad the feedback may pinpoint to the clay. I have heard that sometimes milk in soap gives the ammonia smell, but usually only if it burns, if you added it frozen and kept it cool it shouldn’t have done that
 

Vicki C

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Todd et al, I am home again and will start on my written plan for the DIY VS testing at various strengths. After prepping this afternoon, I will begin in the morning. I had wanted to start today as it is the 1st, but with expecting Hubby home with a carload of stuff to unpack, I figured I'd best be available to help with the unpacking instead. The 2nd is a good enough date for the first soaps. I hope to get all done in one or two days, then will follow up periodically per the plan with observations. I am using only one FO and no added colors, but 3 strengths for each chemical and 3 strengths for the combo, plus Two controls consisting of one soap without any VS and One using a commercially obtainable VS for comparison, which is the BCN VS, as I have it on hand.

So today: prep.
I’ve been following this thread and am looking forward to hearing about and seeing your results. I just got my sodium metabisulfite yesterday and am waiting for the thiosulfate. I’m planning to try each separately and together but I don’t have any commercial VCS to compare it to.
 

Jeboz

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It's taken me a while but I finally have some pics to show.
I made the stabiliser in November and made this blue soap on the 19th November. Used both chemicals as per Todd's recipe.
First pic is the day made, second is the 12th December and the last is today - 4th January. Other than lighting issues which I tried to keep consistent, the soap is the same colour today as the day I made it! The vanillin content is 3% and the fragrance is chocolate mint.
I also include some (scary) bunny soaps I made yesterday to follow up on. This fragrance is Sugar Fairy (type) with 1% vanillin.
IMG_7739.JPGIMG_7750.JPGIMG_7783.JPGIMG_7784.JPG
 

Vicki C

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These are CP? How were you able to cut the same day? They are lovely btw. And the stabilizer looks like a winner!
 

Melysg25

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It's taken me a while but I finally have some pics to show.
I made the stabiliser in November and made this blue soap on the 19th November. Used both chemicals as per Todd's recipe.
First pic is the day made, second is the 12th December and the last is today - 4th January. Other than lighting issues which I tried to keep consistent, the soap is the same colour today as the day I made it! The vanillin content is 3% and the fragrance is chocolate mint.
I also include some (scary) bunny soaps I made yesterday to follow up on. This fragrance is Sugar Fairy (type) with 1% vanillin.
View attachment 52956View attachment 52957View attachment 52958View attachment 52959
It seems to be working quite well for you too!
 

Todd Ziegler

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I’ve been following this thread and am looking forward to hearing about and seeing your results. I just got my sodium metabisulfite yesterday and am waiting for the thiosulfate. I’m planning to try each separately and together but I don’t have any commercial VCS to compare it to.
I think there is enough people participating in the tests and using both the VCS & ZCS, that we have that covered. But having more people trying the new ZCS is a good idea. If you want to compare it with something, look and see if your FO supplier has a picture of the FO's discoloring or a description of the final discoloring. That is a good way to check your results. I know that natures garden provides a picture and description of the discoloring.
It's taken me a while but I finally have some pics to show.
I made the stabiliser in November and made this blue soap on the 19th November. Used both chemicals as per Todd's recipe.
First pic is the day made, second is the 12th December and the last is today - 4th January. Other than lighting issues which I tried to keep consistent, the soap is the same colour today as the day I made it! The vanillin content is 3% and the fragrance is chocolate mint.
I also include some (scary) bunny soaps I made yesterday to follow up on. This fragrance is Sugar Fairy (type) with 1% vanillin.
View attachment 52956View attachment 52957View attachment 52958View attachment 52959
The soap looks good and I like the bunny soap.
 

Todd Ziegler

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Oh got it - wasn’t meaning to challenge I just thought maybe you knew a secret! 😊
Some of my soaps can be cut the same day that I poured them. It really depends on the ingredients and if you gell your soap.

I bring my soap temperature up to about 150°F and I use sodium lactate and depending on the behavior of my FO I can cut some batches the same day. It is usually 14 - 18 hours later and if I pour the soap around 9am.

I force gell my soap with heating pads and towels wrapped around the soap mold. I have developed a recipe that allows me to get the soap up to 160°F without it going volcano, braining or separating.

However the FO plays a critical role and I have eliminated any FO that generates heat, quick acceleration or any other undesirable trait.

Having said that, it does not always mean that I can cut it the same day.
 
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