high and low quality Oil question

[tarkus]

Hi All,

My first a few batch I used costco or trader joe's coconut oils and I kind of learned how fast it gets to trace and how quickly it becomes thick. last night I used coconut oil I bough online and I noticed a few things.

1. doesn't even smell
2. thickness of oil is reduced
3. I taste it I can tell low quality oil.

well I continued making the soap and now I noticed major oil behaver difference.

1. after pouring the lye I do not see any reaction until I mix with blender
2. with good oil as I pure the lye in to oil I can right a way started soaping process.
3. using cheap oil takes a few minutes to see thickening action
4. when it become really think in the middle of mold there was large horizontal
crack.
5. curing process was very fast I can tell the mold was getting way too hot then compare to high quality oils.

my question is:
1. have you tried high and low quality oils and what is your experience? in my case I used 20% Superfat and I used only 100% coconut nothing else added.
the result after 8 hours the soap became so hard and nice looking. that's a good thing but what I do not understand is the heat was much higher then using higher quality oils. I used 2:1 ratio. I think for cheap oils 2:1 is too much. the soaping process is too quick. based on my understating high quality oils need more lye and cheap quality oil need less lye. what do you think?

 

[MorpheusPA]

I can't speak about coconut oil (except to mention to check the fractionation, there are full on liquid coconut oils out there).

For olive, I can speak--I use the lowest quality oil I can get my hands on locally (without paying shipping). Usually that's Grade A. I avoid virgin and extra virgin due to the expense.

The lower grade olive traces somewhat faster, but ultimately results in exactly the same soap. Or at least so similar I can't tell any difference.

 

[not_ally]

I don't see any difference b/w either the coconut or olive I buy at Cosco - have never tried TJ's, as Cosco is cheaper for me - and that I have bought on line. Like Morpheus, I just buy the cheapest OO, not virgin/EVOO. I don't have much experience buying OO on line, but do with CO, it tends to be more competitive price-wise w/r/t online and local sourcing (in fact, on-line has been cheaper for me, although I do not buy in bulk.)

What are your online sources? I am wondering if they are from places that do not do enough volume, so that the oils stay in stock for longer .....

ETA: if you can actually taste/smell staleness or something else that is off in the CO I would not use it, that seems like DOS waiting to happen?

 

[Obsidian]

I've used high quality and lower quality coconut oil and never noticed a difference. Did you happen to soap the different oils at different temperatures?

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Are both actually 100% co? Or is the cheaper one mixed with other ingredients or otherwise treated in some way?

On your points, I think that 5 is still saponification, not curing. Co soaps do tend to get really hot in the mould

 

[hmlove1218]

Everyone above has pretty good ideas, howver, I would like to point out a few things.

1. doesn't even smell
I've never bought from TJ, but I would assume you're used to buying virgin coconut oil, which still has a smell. What you got offline is, I'm assuming, RBG (refined, bleached, and deodorized), therefore, it won't have a scent. This does not, however, mean that it is a low quality oil, just more processed.

2. thickness of oil is reduced
I'm thinking that perhaps this oil had just gotten hot and partially melted and just hadn't resolidified yet.

3. I taste it I can tell low quality oil.
As stated above, RBD oil shouldn't have a significant taste, but this doesn't mean it's low quality.

1. after pouring the lye I do not see any reaction until I mix with blender
2. with good oil as I pure the lye in to oil I can right a way started soaping process.
Could you have been soaping at different temperatures? Without any other info, I think that perhaps when you can see the process starting right away that you may be soaping just a little too cool and slightly solidifying your solid oils.

3. using cheap oil takes a few minutes to see thickening action
I'm not sure what would cause this other than perhaps temp differences when you're soaping, or perhaps the refinement of the coconut oil.

4. when it become really think in the middle of mold there was large horizontal crack.
This means your soap was getting to hot and needs to be cooled down. If you have it wrapped, unwrap it and put a fan on it. If it's just sitting on the counter, try putting it in the fridge or freezer. If soap gets too hot, it can volcano. Cracks are one of the first warning signs that your soap is overheating.

5. curing process was very fast I can tell the mold was getting way too hot then compare to high quality oils.
No, the oil change did not speed up the curing process, as nothing speeds the cure. Your soap simply went through gel phase faster than usual. Curing is the 4-6 weeks (at minimum) that you allow your soap to sit after making it. Curing soap creates a milder, gentler, longer lasting soap.

based on my understating high quality oils need more lye and cheap quality oil need less lye. what do you think?
Again, no. High or low quality oil has nothing to do with the SAP value for that particular oil as long as it is pure. SAP values are the average calculation of how much lye it takes to convert oil into soap. SAP values can vary from year to year and crop to crop, which is why we use the average.

 

[kchaystack]

Everyone above has pretty good ideas, howver, I would like to point out a few things.

Well said and I would agree 100% with all you said.

 

[shunt2011]

I agree with all above. Also, 100% CO soap will heat more and has a tendency to overheat if you aren't careful. It does not require a lot of insulating.

 

[tarkus]

thank you for your time answering to my questions. let me ask you this then: I know lye and oil should have about 110 degree to mix together. to understand better what will happen if they are not. let say as long as I see it became clear I use it? what kind of reaction it will happen? as far as I remember I didn't think I waited for the lye to cool down enough to 110 also I didn't check the oil temperature. maybe 160-170 degree I think this was my mistake.

 

[Obsidian]

The hotter you soap, the faster it will trace. As far as letting it cool down, it not necessary unless you are trying to slow trace or are making soap that heat up. I've used room temp oil with freshly made, very hot lye solution and the only affect was quick trace which I wanted.

Since you make 100% coconut soap, I would let your lye cool down to 100 F or less to help prevent overheating.

 

[tarkus]

thank you