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thomasgable

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Hello there everyone,


My name is Tom and I am from Midland, MI. I have made soap for a couple of months along with candles and balms! The catch is that all my products are made with tallow! I know most soap-makers don't have much of an issue with tallow so I will divulge a little bit. I render my own tallow in my kitchen lol...I have rendered about 600 lbs to make all of my candles and balms and soaps.

I think tallow is a great, recyclable way to make soaps and candles because usually the suet that I get will be either thrown out or fed to the birds. Not to mention it makes fantastic soap and balms!

I also started making products this way to get back to the traditional art of candle making and soap making. I love rustic and this fits right in! Anyway, I have been peaking around the forums for a while and figured I best introduce myself

Here is a link to my etsy shop! https://www.etsy.com/shop/CabinLightCandles?ref=si_shop
 

The Efficacious Gentleman

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Welcome Tom. I really want to see these lakes that everyone describes as great!

Had a wee look at the shop and I think you need to have a look at th business forum for information on what you can and can not - or rather may and may not - say about your soap unless it is a registered product as cosmetic or drug with the FDA.
 

The Efficacious Gentleman

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Also colours aren't listed in the recipe - I know it's not technically required, but listing some and not all ingredients might not be the best
 

thomasgable

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Such as.....??? I browsed FDA regulations, etc. and did not see anything that I was doing improperly. Also looked at the business forum but did not find anything regarding your reply..Perhaps you can leave a link to whatever I should be looking at
 

The Efficacious Gentleman

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http://www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/ProductandIngredientSafety/ProductInformation/ucm115449.htm

4th paragraph -

"If a cosmetic claim is made on the label of a "true" soap or cleanser, such as moisturizing or deodorizing, the product must meet all FDA requirements for a cosmetic, and the label must list all ingredients. If a drug claim is made on a cleanser or soap, such as antibacterial, antiperspirant, or anti acne, the product is a drug, and the label must list all active ingredients, as is required for all drug products."

From the first paragraph in your product description - http://www.etsy.com/listing/179779104/lilac-tallow-soap-handcrafted-soap?ref=shop_home_active_2

".................Our tallow soap both cleanses and moisturizes, which leaves your skin feeling fresh and clean. "

I'm happy to help out, but I found your tone to be more than a little out of order considering I'm trying to keep you from getting the FDA up your backside!

eta - maybe a browse of the regulations of your market is not enough?
 

shunt2011

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Wecome to the forum. I too am from Michigan. The only thing that catches my eye is that you don't consistently list your colorant on your ingredients. Also, I wouldn't claim that your soap moisturizes (I don't think you can if labeling correctly)....Soap is a wash off product and won't mositurize your skin. However, it can be gentle, and not strip your skin. The only other concern I would have is that you state you've only been making soap for a few months and are already selling it without knowing how it will perform or last.
 

thomasgable

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Well, I did not know that about using the word moisturizing in the description! Second, of all...I made my first batch of CP soap just after Thanksgiving...Let it cure ofr 4 weeks and have used it for the past two months and its great. I apologize if you think that is to quick, but I wasn't go to wait 8 months to a year just to confirm it is still working well...the ingredients I use are not any different than other soaps and there is absolutely no reason it should have issues

Also, The Efficacious Gentleman, I apologize if the tone came off that way, I was not trying to sound condescending or upset...so I am sorry if it came across that way. I just quickly wrote a reply and since I wasn't trying to sound angry, I didn't read over it again. However, I can see how it came across that way and so I just wanted to apologize. I appreciate your help and will make changes to my listings asap!
 

The Efficacious Gentleman

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Thank you, Tom.

Time-wise, the learning curve is so steep in the early stages that many people suggest waiting a while to sell so that all the sold batches are actually good batches and so on. Plus, while we can take a very educated view that using a fairly standard recipe will be fine in a years time, unless you have actually had a bar from this recipe sit for a year then you can only say to a customer what it should do or what it is likely to do, not what you know it will do.

Not saying it to be nasty, but that is the general line of thinking on waiting a year.

I take it that you have insurance, too?
 

shunt2011

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No offense taken. I was just giving my perspective and many others. I would just be concerned especially when rendering your own Tallow. Can you be sure your soap won't go rancid in 6 months or a year. I wasn't trying to be condencending either just stating how many feel. Actually there's a post on here regarding just this type of thing. People making and selling their first batches without testing. I wish you good luck. I too assume you have insurance since you are selling...it's extremely important to cover yourself should something happen.
 
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thomasgable

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Yes, I am covered! And shunt2011, I am very certain that my tallow will not go rancid in 6 months. I have been making tallow candles much longer than soap and I have not had an issue whatsoever with rancidity in them. I also feel confident about the purity of my tallow due to the rendering process as I render it in a three step process that both eliminates tiny particles and moisture which cause the rancidity in tallow. I take extreme measures to ensure that my tallow is pure and free of the things that would cause it to go rancid quickly
 

Relle

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Well, I did not know that about using the word moisturizing in the description! Second, of all...I made my first batch of CP soap just after Thanksgiving...Let it cure ofr 4 weeks and have used it for the past two months and its great. I apologize if you think that is to quick, but I wasn't go to wait 8 months to a year just to confirm it is still working well...the ingredients I use are not any different than other soaps and there is absolutely no reason it should have issues
You said you did not know about using the word moisturizing in the description - that would be one reason you are selling too early. Here's a link you might like to read from the Business Forum, but it seems you have already made up your mind about selling and not listening to advice from other members who want to help you anyway.

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=16002
 

soapballs

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Hi Thomas I am also going to make Tallow Soap...well that is the plan at least. I just ordered the tallow so we shall see what the stars have in store for me soon. I do not plan on using any exotic oils, any synthetic fragrances and/or additives etc. Just plain simple soap ;) Jump in shower get wet, lather up and rinse...done and clean that's my only mission lol.

I was under the understanding that as long as you made no claims and your soap does not contain any detergents...and was just that soap and natural you legally did not have to list the ingredients? From my research and perhaps mine is outdated sources but according to the FDA, soap is exempt from labeling if no claims are made that is and its classified as plain regular pure soap nothing else. Labeling their product was under my knowledge mainly for liability reasons and not to mention out of respect to the customer if they have specific allergies. Also I understood that if anything was less than 1% it was not required to be added onto the labels ingredients as well- given it was not a active ingredient. However, I have not been to your website and have no clue what your soaps contain or wording you use. But, now I am very curious about this all and what I have read relating to the labeling. I assume its more of your play of words if the soap is soap and not a detergent and what powers it possesses. Can someone maybe chime in on this more? If someone made only straight 100% tallow soap and made no claims for it other than it is 100% Tallow soap they really would not have to label it according to FDA- right? That soap would be regulated by Consumer Product Safety Commission and you would not be regulated by them either to list the ingredients. Feeling very confused right now.
 

The Efficacious Gentleman

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Labeling is nothing to worry about for now, Soapballs. And in this instance, the OP was stating that his soaps were moisturising, which IS the type of claim that means you need to be all registered with the FDA and so on.
 
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