Hi all!

[gladysjones]

As a non fb user i was super excited to find you guys! I've made 2 whole batches of soap!! The first was a dream success (Castile and super easy). And I loved it. It's got about two weeks left to cure but ofc I couldn't wait and started trying it out already. My 2nd batch I bit off a little more than I could chew. Used an entire bottle of acv. To replace water content. It was also a big batch. (Not sure what I was thinking). but came out crumbly. I don't think it was lye heavy tho i t was superfatted 10% was going for a facial bar type..really..i was (never heard of the yoni thing until I started troubleshooting) anyhoo, now today I'm going for a 3rd batch. Say a quick for me. I need them regardless.

 

[Peachy Clean Soap]

Hello & Welcome

 

[giulia]

Welcome and I hope your 3rd batch is a success!

 

[lsg]

Welcome to the forum. When first starting out in soap making, I would advise small batches to see what works best. Here is a thread on the subject of using ACV:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/thr... use vinegar,and increase the soap's softness.

 

[GemstonePony]

Welcome! Crumbly can also mean it wasn't quite past emulsion before you poured. It can get close enough to look smooth but separate back out over time, resulting in a finely grainy, crumbly soap.

 

[gladysjones]

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome.

And that thread is very informative lsg, thank you! I knew they would cancel each other out but it didn't dawn on me to need to add lye. I don't completely understand the chemistry of it yet.

GemstonePony that's definitely a possibility. Especially now that I realize there was no way it could be lye heavy given the chemistry. Ty!

 

[AliOop]

Welcome, welcome! Another non-FB user here who is so appreciative of this forum as an alternative place to hang out with other soapers. I also love using vinegar as a water replacer; it makes for a harder soap that unmolds more quickly and has a nice lather feel.

You can use the SoapmakingFriend lye calculator to calculate your extra lye when using vinegar. Read up on the tutorials about that, and then ask us questions if it sitill doesn't make sense.

I would recommend a much lower superfat unless making a 100% coconut oil soap. Otherwise, the extra oil cuts down on your lather, increases the risk of the soap going rancid, and increases the soap scum left behind on your sink and shower. With a good recipe, you really don't need tons of SF. Start at 3-4% and see what you think.

 

[IrishLass]

From one non-FB user to another, welcome!


IrishLass

 

[gladysjones]

@AliOop ty!! That's a great feature the calculator has.(additives) I will definitely use this next time. I do have a sf q. I've read you can discount lye instead. In that case you would save $ so why the sf instead? Thinking maybe there is a reason. Why use more when you can use less¿

Tnx! @IrishLass

 

[AliOop]

@gladysjones using a "lye discount" will not save you money, nor are any of the soap calculators set up to calculate that for you.

Why? Because "super fat" is another way to describe the same basic concept: having more fat in the recipe than the designated amount of lye can saponify.

Or to say it the other way: having less lye than is needed to saponify all the fat that is in the recipe.

Can you see how the end result is the same? There is no difference in cost - just a difference in how you describe the concept.

Since all the calculators use the term "super fat" and not "lye discount," and since most modern soapers also talk in these terms, you will be better off starting and sticking with "super fat." This will avoid confusion when talking with other soapers, especially given that not everyone agrees on exactly how to apply a lye discount to a recipe.

HTH!

 

[KimW]

Welcome!

 

[gladysjones]

@AliOop Sounds good!. I'm fine with the terminology, Ig I was thinking about using less lye=less product rather than more oil=more product. Ergo saving $ but i imagine it's pretty nominal. Thank you for humoring me

PS. Not sure why my ¿ is upside down lol. Its set to English but i think its confused.

 

[AliOop]

@gladysjones I understand the thinking, but it's not really a savings unless you consider making a smaller batch to be a savings. Because that's what happens if you approach it from the perspective of less lye, as opposed to more oil. Make sense?

 

[gladysjones]

Well, if I use less lye to make the ratio sfatted, then I'm using less product no¿ If i use more oil im using more product, for the same amt of end product.. Sorry if I'm missing something. I may have to let it fester

 

[AliOop]

If you add oil for superfat, you are making a bigger batch of soap, by the amount of additional oil that you have added.

But either way, the amounts in question are pretty small unless you are making LOTS of soap. We are talking pennies of difference in the cost of the entire batch, and fractions of pennies per bar.

IMO, it will be more important for now to use terminology that is standard for modern soapmakers, and that works with the lye calculators.

 

[Tara_H]

If i use more oil im using more product, for the same amt of end product..

Not for the same amount of end product, that's the point everyone's trying to explain

So if your batch would come to a total of 500g with 0% superfat, you could add a little more oil (superfatting) and end up with a total end result of (say) 505g, or you could 'lye discount' and end up with a total end result of (e.g.) 498g. But it's just a different way of describing the same thing at the end of the day.

 

[GemstonePony]

Well, if I use less lye to make the ratio sfatted, then I'm using less product no¿ If i use more oil im using more product, for the same amt of end product.. Sorry if I'm missing something. I may have to let it fester

With higher superfat, you're still making the same amount of soap as a smaller batch, you're just dumping more oil down the drain in addition to that and making your soap less effective at cleaning. Please believe me, with all of the individuals selling soap on here, if raising the SF was an effective cost-saving measure, we'd ALL know about it. As it is, lowering the SF is more common because such bars are less prone to rancidity, have better lather, generate less soap scum, and the corresponding liquid and the tiny bit of lye are usually less expensive than oils, and even with a cure some of the liquid will still account for the weight when it comes to sell or use the soap.
If you want to raise the SF and see what happens, I'm all for mad science. But unless you're using expensive liquid and cheap oils, it's the reverse of a cost-saving measure.

 

[gladysjones]

But either way, the amounts in question are pretty small unless you are making LOTS of soap. We are talking pennies of difference in the cost of the entire batch, and fractions of pennies per bar.

Yes! This is what I meant. I realize it's not going to pad anyone's profit, but it just seems more practical to use less of a product to me. No biggee. I didn't mean for it to blow up.

IMO, it will be more important for now to use terminology that is standard for modern soapmakers,
Agreed. I will absolutely remember that. Thank you!

@GemstonePony I was just trying to compare sf to lye discounting since for all intents and purposes, its the same thing. I wasn't asking about wanting to sf anything in particular. Just a different way to go about it.

 

[AliOop]

@gladysjones No worries, it's not blown up at all. We just love a good discussion here and can talk almost anything into the ground.

But I do think you will find, and most here on this forum will agree, that you are better off working with SF numbers than lye discount numbers. That's all. But even if you prefer otherwise, you are still welcome here.