Help with recipe for basic multicoloured soap

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Soapprentice

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Hey guys, I am planning on doing my second batch of soap and this time I just want to add a couple of colours. Here is a recipe I am planning on doing without palm and animal fats. Please help me balance it without either of them? I am going for a good conditioning bar of soap. And how long would the cure approximately be?

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The Efficacious Gentleman

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It depends what you mean by balance.

I prefer bars with more hard oils than liquid which is hard to do with no palm or animal oils in there, unless you up the co and/or butters, but that also has its own disadvantages.

As t stands, for what you are trying to do, it looks pretty good. I don't know AKO and what it may or may not do, but the rest looks good.

Full water is maybe too much with so much soft oil, but will also give you more time to play with colouring the batter. As for cure, it will need more time rather than less. The fatty acid profile peaks at oleic so I would plan on at least 3 months. It will of course be usable before then, but I wouldn't judge it too much until it has had a gooooood long cure
 

Soapprentice

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When I meant balance, I meant hardness.. I read apricot kernel will slow trace as it is my 1st soap with colour, I am thinking slower the better.
 

The Efficacious Gentleman

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Physical hardness and longevity aren't always the same with soap - 100% co will give a hammer-like bar, but it dissolves rather easily (which is why it bubbles so well). But if you keep these bars well drained so they can dry nicely between uses they shouldn't be too short lived at all
 

toxikon

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I think as long as you soap fairly cool (maybe around 100 degrees), you can get away with bumping up the lye concentration to around 35% (so less water). With less water, you'll have a harder bar in a shorter period of time. At full water, you may have much longer cure to get those bars hardened up.
 

Soapprentice

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Hmmmm...... thank u so much guys... will try for palm oil ( it's rather hard to get it here as it is used very less ) or may be use less water.. thank u again
 

Steve85569

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You could use some sodium acetate in your soap to help with hardness.

Explore the vinegar threads for more information on how and how much.
White vinegar is best to use and you need to be sure of the percentage of acetic acid in the bottle. It *should* be listed on the label.
I routinely use half vinegar (reacted with lye) when soaping to help with hardness. It does.
Sodium lactate helps too ( milk) but has it's own difficulties.
 

BrewerGeorge

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Hmmmm...... thank u so much guys... will try for palm oil ( it's rather hard to get it here as it is used very less ) or may be use less water.. thank u again ��
I see you're in India. How about ghee? That should help hardness similarly to beef tallow, but without the ethical problems.

ETA: Whoops, after searching the site, it seems ghee has some problems with smell.
 
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Soapprentice

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I see you're in India. How about ghee? That should help hardness similarly to beef tallow, but without the ethical problems.

ETA: Whoops, after searching the site, it seems ghee has some problems with smell.
Oh yes, I am aware of that smell, not looking forward for it... might as well search for palm oil.

You could use some sodium acetate in your soap to help with hardness.

Explore the vinegar threads for more information on how and how much.
White vinegar is best to use and you need to be sure of the percentage of acetic acid in the bottle. It *should* be listed on the label.
I routinely use half vinegar (reacted with lye) when soaping to help with hardness. It does.
Sodium lactate helps too ( milk) but has it's own difficulties.
Thank you.. I am goin to attack those threads now ��...
 

Gerry

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the "hardness" rating on SoapCalc have more to do with the speed of saponification of the fatty acids involved rather than the hardness of the finished bar, like if unmolding your soap quickly is important to you?

Anyway looks "balanced" enough to me for a conditioning type soap considering there's a lot of high palmitic oils and butter in there to make up for the lack of lard or palm oil.
 

mx6inpenn

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Imo, the hardness rating is fairly accurate for what I've used. The issue comes when people equate hard with long lasting. For example, 100% coconut oil makes a very hard bar, but it's also one of the more soluble oils, so the bar dissolves quickly. I tend to look for middle range numbers on SoapCalc on most qualities, but low for cleansing.
 

earlene

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If this is your first attempt at coloring soap and your second soap and you want to do any kind of swirl, AND if you're anything like me, and need all the time you can to make the soap and get it into the mold before it gets too thick, then I'd say stick with the full water.

My first (probably 50 - 100) soaps were all full water and I really needed the extra time to make sure I could do the color addtions and attempt designs. It wasn't until I'd been soaping for over a year, did I even attempt to increase my lye concentration and reduce water. Partly because I hadn't really thought of it, as I hadn't yet read much about it, though. But I'm really glad I didn't try with my second batch of soap. The first time I did that with color and swirls, the soap moved too fast and even though it turned out nice in the end, it would have been way too intimidating for my second batch of soap.

You already have enough in your recipe to speed up trace. The Castor at 5% and you've got two hard oils. I'd keep the water at the SoapCalc default and just be careful not to soap too hot is all. (Also not too cold because of the hard oils.) It will give you more time to work with the colors.
 

Gerry

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Imo, the hardness rating is fairly accurate for what I've used. The issue comes when people equate hard with long lasting. For example, 100% coconut oil makes a very hard bar, but it's also one of the more soluble oils, so the bar dissolves quickly. I tend to look for middle range numbers on SoapCalc on most qualities, but low for cleansing.
Then why is the softest soap according to SoapCalc my hardest soap ever? (100% Pure virgin olive oil).
 
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Gerry

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I did say for what I've used. :)
Fair enough. :)

I have to plane my castile right after I unmold them otherwise it's like trying to plane a block of black walnut by hand. Really dense too and waxy like, and that's with no gel. High oleic acid oil bases may take a long time to fully harden and saponify, but once they do they're very very hard.
 

Soapprentice

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the "hardness" rating on SoapCalc have more to do with the speed of saponification of the fatty acids involved rather than the hardness of the finished bar, like if unmolding your soap quickly is important to you?

Anyway looks "balanced" enough to me for a conditioning type soap considering there's a lot of high palmitic oils and butter in there to make up for the lack of lard or palm oil.
Yes, I want the soap to come out in one piece. Last time I had an issue unmoulding. It took two entire days and yet the soap got stuck a little to the mould and is tad bit squeeshy when I apply pressure on it.

I learnt lasting is different than hardness.. I am sure the soaps become hard after giving a long cure.. I am more concerned about the unmoulding part.
 
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Soapprentice

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If this is your first attempt at coloring soap and your second soap and you want to do any kind of swirl, AND if you're anything like me, and need all the time you can to make the soap and get it into the mold before it gets too thick, then I'd say stick with the full water.

My first (probably 50 - 100) soaps were all full water and I really needed the extra time to make sure I could do the color addtions and attempt designs. It wasn't until I'd been soaping for over a year, did I even attempt to increase my lye concentration and reduce water. Partly because I hadn't really thought of it, as I hadn't yet read much about it, though. But I'm really glad I didn't try with my second batch of soap. The first time I did that with color and swirls, the soap moved too fast and even though it turned out nice in the end, it would have been way too intimidating for my second batch of soap.

You already have enough in your recipe to speed up trace. The Castor at 5% and you've got two hard oils. I'd keep the water at the SoapCalc default and just be careful not to soap too hot is all. (Also not too cold because of the hard oils.) It will give you more time to work with the colors.
I am going to take your advice on this and go with full water and try adding vinegar. May be I will drop castor and add sugar as I read on other threads?
 

Soapprentice

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You could use some sodium acetate in your soap to help with hardness.

Explore the vinegar threads for more information on how and how much.
White vinegar is best to use and you need to be sure of the percentage of acetic acid in the bottle. It *should* be listed on the label.
I routinely use half vinegar (reacted with lye) when soaping to help with hardness. It does.
Sodium lactate helps too ( milk) but has it's own difficulties.
Thank you so much for bringing this up.. I went through the threads and loved the information. This form never fails to amaze me with the information.. you guys are amazing. One more question, when you use half vinegar, when can we remove from the mould and cut the soap as I read that the soap will get hard fast and might be difficult to cut.
 

BattleGnome

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. It took two entire days

It takes me at least three days to unmold without gel, usually closer to five then I let it sit a day before cutting. As far as I know it's just an environment thing. My house does tends to be cold which will slow everything down but I just run with it.
 

Soapprentice

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It takes me at least three days to unmold without gel, usually closer to five then I let it sit a day before cutting. As far as I know it's just an environment thing. My house does tends to be cold which will slow everything down but I just run with it.
Mine gelled completely.... we have warm climate. Coconut oil does not even solidify and if it did, 15 mins in sun will melt the oil.
 
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