Help rebatching soft soap!

[Ems]

Hi x I’ve been making soap for years and trading for 3. I’m battling with batches of soap that are so soft and I can’t fathom why. I’ve used the same base recipe (with goats milk) and it’s so stressful as I’m losing so many Xmas sales etc. It’s not a scales or lye issue. When I try to rebatch there’s oil that’s not absorbed into the soap batter. It’s so depressing as the business may not survive. Partly I needed to vent amongst fellow soapers so thank you. I make my soap with olive, coconut and avocado oils and cocoa butter. I had this recipe assessed and have had no problems for 3 years until now x

 

[shunt2011]

We need more information....percentages, additives, lye concentration, superfat. I'm leaning as to your lye not being good. If everything else is the same as always.

 

[Ems]

I use 24oz olive 12 coconut 2 cocoa and 2 avocado. All additives are added at chemist recommend levels as per my safety assessment and the same low percentage when essential oils used. I’ve not switched supplier with any supplies other than recently olive oil. The lye I buy from a local store in one litre tubs

 

[DeeAnna]

Does the lye solution get as hot as usual when you mix the NaOH with water? If it does not, that points to a purity problem.

The separation issue suggests the batter is either overheating during saponification or you're not getting the batter to a stable emulsion.

You're not giving the full recipe so we can really trouble shoot. Just listing the fats isn't enough. We also need water/milk weight and NaOH weight plus weight of all additives, including fragrance.

Also method is important -- specifically how do you make this soap? Have you made any significant changes in how you do things? Have you made any changes in the equipment you use?

The more information you give, the better your chances are of getting some useful, detailed advice from the rest of us.

 

[Ems]

Sorry! It’s CP method. Superfatting 5%. Lye solution appears to be as hot as usually is and I’m using no different equipment.
I’ve attached pic of base recipe when essential oils are used maximum is at 2.5% and any additives are usually like 1% eg dried Lavender. I’ve tried water discount in more recent batches fingers crossed. I did change from one supermarket to another’s olive oil more recently. X

 

[DeeAnna]

Okay, a couple of suggestions for you --

Your lye concentration is about 27% (water:lye ratio of 2.7). That's borderline too much water for most recipes, and that is especially true for recipes high in oleic acid like yours. Too much water slows saponification, increases the risk of emulsion failure (separation in the mold), and can make the soap overly soft.

Maybe you've been doing this recipe for years, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement. I'd increase the lye concentration to at least 33% (water:lye ratio of 2.0). Also, don't use "water as % of oil" if that's what you're doing. Start using lye concentration or water:lye ratio instead for more consistent results.

Another suggestion is to remember olive oil is often adulterated. Inexpensive olive oil often contains some (and in some cases may even be 100%) of a cheaper polyunsaturated oil. A high % of polyunsaturated oil will typically make a softer soap. If your troubles mostly started after you switched brands, can you go back to the old brand and see if that helps? Another option is to switch to another high oleic oil such as high oleic sunflower, HO canola, HO safflower, or rice bran oil (RBO).

 

[Ems]

Thank you so much I can’t switch to an alternative to olive oil as it’s in my safety assessment so I couldn’t then sell legally. I’ve gone back to the other olive oil so fingers crossed and I’ve noted your other suggestions- much appreciated. Any tips with rebatching them?

Okay, a couple of suggestions for you --

Your lye concentration is about 27% (water:lye ratio of 2.7). That's borderline too much water for most recipes, and that is especially true for recipes high in oleic acid like yours. Too much water slows saponification, increases the risk of emulsion failure (separation in the mold), and can make the soap overly soft.

Maybe you've been doing this recipe for years, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement. I'd increase the lye concentration to at least 33% (water:lye ratio of 2.0). Also, don't use "water as % of oil" if that's what you're doing. Start using lye concentration or water:lye ratio instead for more consistent results.

Another suggestion is to remember olive oil is often adulterated. Inexpensive olive oil often contains some (and in some cases may even be 100%) of a cheaper polyunsaturated oil. A high % of polyunsaturated oil will typically make a softer soap. If your troubles mostly started after you switched brands, can you go back to the old brand and see if that helps? Another option is to switch to another high oleic oil such as high oleic sunflower, HO canola, HO safflower, or rice bran oil (RBO).

Thank you so much x

Okay, a couple of suggestions for you --

Your lye concentration is about 27% (water:lye ratio of 2.7). That's borderline too much water for most recipes, and that is especially true for recipes high in oleic acid like yours. Too much water slows saponification, increases the risk of emulsion failure (separation in the mold), and can make the soap overly soft.

Maybe you've been doing this recipe for years, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement. I'd increase the lye concentration to at least 33% (water:lye ratio of 2.0). Also, don't use "water as % of oil" if that's what you're doing. Start using lye concentration or water:lye ratio instead for more consistent results.

Another suggestion is to remember olive oil is often adulterated. Inexpensive olive oil often contains some (and in some cases may even be 100%) of a cheaper polyunsaturated oil. A high % of polyunsaturated oil will typically make a softer soap. If your troubles mostly started after you switched brands, can you go back to the old brand and see if that helps? Another option is to switch to another high oleic oil such as high oleic sunflower, HO canola, HO safflower, or rice bran oil (RBO).

 

[shunt2011]

I personally wouldn't re-batch them. I'd just give them a good long cure. See what happens. I dislike high OO soaps and you've got a lot of liquid in there too. That's likely your biggest problem. I'd let them cure 3-6 months.

 

[Ems]

Thank you for your help I do appreciate it

 

[DeeAnna]

I agree with Shari about giving the soap a good long cure first and see how it turns out.

It's nice to know how to rebatch, but people tend to leap into rebatching too quickly. Being patient -- "Tincture of time" -- often gives as good or better results with far less work.

 

[Ems]

Yes In hindsight I agree and shall leave them on the curing racks. I was hastily trying to rebatch as I’ve very little stock for Christmas markets now and was stressed! Thank you all x

 

[DeeAnna]

Rebatching won't produce soap you can sell any sooner than if you let the soap cure as-is, @Ems. The extra liquid added when rebatching increases the cure time, since that liquid has to evaporate.

Also the appearance is seldom as good after rebatching because the bars often warp and distort due to the extra liquid. The few times I've rebatched, the soap ended up with a "swaybacked" top that didn't look particularly appealing.

 

[Ems]

Thank you x I appreciate all the advice.