HELP - My Soap Has an Oil Pool!

[MrsZ]

I made a goat milk, oatmeal, cinnamon and honey soap from a book this morning and I think I have a problem.

I followed the recipe, except that my oils were 4degrees warmer than my lye, 104 instead of 100. I also only had .75 oz cinnamon leaf essential oil and used .25 oz sweet orange essential oil to make up the difference. I did not insulate at all and It appeared to go through gel stage beautifully.

It has only set 6 hours but is concerning me. It feels cool and firm enough to unmold, but the very top of the loaf has a skin of soap and a large pool of liquid floating freely underneath. As in, I tip the mold and watch it run like a lake.

Should I rebatch? Leave it a couple days? Any ideas what I did wrong?

A picture of the recipe amounts is attached.

Thanks for any advice!

Also, this is my first post and I've never used a forum before so please let me know if I posted this in the wrong place or anything. Thanks again!

 

[gladysjones]

I'm curios too. That seems odd. Only thing I notice is the castor oil seems higher than usual, is that 15%? Idk if that would cause it. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will chime in. What's it doing since. Have you tried to cut it yet?

 

[MrsZ]

I'm curios too. That seems odd. Only thing I notice is the castor oil seems higher than usual, is that 15%? Idk if that would cause it. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will chime in. What's it doing since. Have you tried to cut it yet?

I have not tried to cut it yet. It looks like if anything, it has separated more. Yes, the castor oil is 15.1%.

I think if I punctured the top I could probably pour a couple ounces off. Someone else told me it would re absorb, but I just don't know.

 

[cmzaha]

It most likely overheated and separated due to the soaping over 100º F with honey and cinnamon and goat's milk. Sadly that is a bit of a recipe for disaster in my opinion especially if you are a new or fairly new soaper. I have always found honey to overheat more than sugar and cinnamon always adds to overheating. With the amount of floating oil I see in the picture, I would say your only save is to dump into a crockpot or a stainless steel pot and rebatch. You can rebatch in the oven in a stainless steel pot. Just make sure to dump all the liquid into your pot.

 

[MrsZ]

It most likely overheated and separated due to the soaping over 100º F with honey and cinnamon and goat's milk. Sadly that is a bit of a recipe for disaster in my opinion especially if you are a new or fairly new soaper. I have always found honey to overheat more than sugar and cinnamon always adds to overheating. With the amount of floating oil I see in the picture, I would say your only save is to dump into a crockpot or a stainless steel pot and rebatch. You can rebatch in the oven in a stainless steel pot. Just make sure to dump all the liquid into your pot.

Thank you so much for your answer! What temperature should I soap this recipe at next time?

 

[cmzaha]

If it were me I would melt the oils until barely melted even a tad cloudy and have the lye around 80ºF. The batter will warm up pretty quickly and thin out. I know most folks would worry about false trace, but with the gm, honey, and cinnamon your batter will quickly heat up and any hint of false trace will quickly disappear. I even soap my high palm recipes this way with no gm or honey.

 

[MrsZ]

If it were me I would melt the oils until barely melted even a tad cloudy and have the lye around 80ºF. The batter will warm up pretty quickly and thin out. I know most folks would worry about false trace, but with the gm, honey, and cinnamon your batter will quickly heat up and any hint of false trace will quickly disappear. I even soap my high palm recipes this way with no gm or honey.

Thank you so much! I really really appreciate your help. I'll rebatch tomorrow, and try a new batch with the temperatures you suggested another time.

 

[KiwiMoose]

How many batches have you made so far @MrsZ ? I would even go so far as to say don't make this recipe again until you know how to make a more basic recipe. As @cmzaha has stated those three items would all cause overheating and in addition castor makes the batter accelerate. Most of us use it between 5-10%.
You also need to be careful with cinnamon leaf because it can be sensitising for some people.
Try using the SMF soap calculator and see what qualities each of the oils bring to soap - and also try plugging in the recipe you followed above and see how that stacks up.

 

[MrsZ]

How many batches have you made so far @MrsZ ? I would even go so far as to say don't make this recipe again until you know how to make a more basic recipe. As @cmzaha has stated those three items would all cause overheating and in addition castor makes the batter accelerate. Most of us use it between 5-10%.
You also need to be careful with cinnamon leaf because it can be sensitising for some people.
Try using the SMF soap calculator and see what qualities each of the oils bring to soap - and also try plugging in the recipe you followed above and see how that stacks up.

Thank you for your input. I have a ton to learn still. I have only made two other batches of soap, a baby soap and a castile. I assumed that since the recipe was in a book for beginners it would be pretty safe.

 

[Arimara]

Thank you for your input. I have a ton to learn still. I have only made two other batches of soap, a baby soap and a castile. I assumed that since the recipe was in a book for beginners it would be pretty safe.

That's a very bad misconception a lot of people run into. There are fewer books that advise you to run their recipes through a soap calc(ulator) than not it seems thanks to "everyone" trying to make a buck. You should always run recipes through a soap calculator, no matter who writes it. I did just that and found this to be a high-liquid recipe, which usually begs for gel phase to occur. That fact plus the use of goat milk, honey, and cinnamon leaf essential oil prepared at about 100F lead to the unavoidable overheating.

As for making future batches, I'm going to suggest (strongly) that you invest in a smaller mold or a molx with a few bar cavities in them. It's better for beginners to make 454g/ 16 oz batches than double that. It saves you more money in the long run, especially if you don't like a recipe.

 

[lsg]

If you want to try and save the soap, dump it all in a slow cooker and chunk it up. Cook on low until it is melted and reaches the "Vaseline" stage.

 

[MrsZ]

That's a very bad misconception a lot of people run into. There are fewer books that advise you to run their recipes through a soap calc(ulator) than not it seems thanks to "everyone" trying to make a buck. You should always run recipes through a soap calculator, no matter who writes it. I did just that and found this to be a high-liquid recipe, which usually begs for gel phase to occur. That fact plus the use of goat milk, honey, and cinnamon leaf essential oil prepared at about 100F lead to the unavoidable overheating.

As for making future batches, I'm going to suggest (strongly) that you invest in a smaller mold or a molx with a few bar cavities in them. It's better for beginners to make 454g/ 16 oz batches than double that. It saves you more money in the long run, especially if you don't like a recipe.

That makes perfect sense, thank you so much. I had no idea. I will learn how to use a soap calculator and get a smaller mold. That will be helpful to keep the cost down for the moment as well.

If you want to try and save the soap, dump it all in a slow cooker and chunk it up. Cook on low until it is melted and reaches the "Vaseline" stage.

I am going to do this today. I have done one batch of hot process soap already, so at least this doesn't sound daunting.

 

[Marsi]

I hope you post pictures after you have rebatched it

An optional alternation:
You can lower the superfat from 18% to 5% by mixing a 50% lye solution (0.60 lye crystals to 0.60 water) and adding that to your rebatch

A soap calculator can be used to double check the numbers I gave you (select lye concentration in a soap calculator, enter 18% and look at the amount of lye, then 5% and see the different lye amount - 0.60 is roughly the difference needed and you need a minimum of 0.60 water to make the lye solution)

Once you are used to using a soap calculator, you will be able to easily adjust any recipe to have the superfat and lye concentration of your choosing.
Even if you keep the oils the same, changing this recipe from 18% superfat to around 5% (or lower, to 3%), and increasing the lye concentration from 28% to 33% would improve the longevity and firmness of the soap.

By rebatching, you will drive off some water (this is good, as your starting lye concentration was quite low)

 

[MrsZ]

I hope you post pictures after you have rebatched it

An optional alternation:
You can lower the superfat from 18% to 5% by mixing a 50% lye solution (0.60 lye crystals to 0.60 water) and adding that to your rebatch

A soap calculator can be used to double check the numbers I gave you (select lye concentration in a soap calculator, enter 18% and look at the amount of lye, then 5% and see the different lye amount - 0.60 is roughly the difference needed and you need a minimum of 0.60 water to make the lye solution)

Once you are used to using a soap calculator, you will be able to easily adjust any recipe to have the superfat and lye concentration of your choosing.
Even if you keep the oils the same, changing this recipe from 18% superfat to around 5% (or lower, to 3%), and increasing the lye concentration from 28% to 33% would improve the longevity and firmness of the soap.

By rebatching, you will drive off some water (this is good, as your starting lye concentration was quite low)

Thank you, that makes sense. It looks like I better start experimenting with soap calc so I can understand it.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I am going to do this today. I have done one batch of hot process soap already, so at least this doesn't sound daunting.

If you haven't done so yet, I would advise waiting a few days to rebatch. Give the oil a chance to reabsorb and the batch to harden up enough to make it easy to grate-up. On another group I rebatched so many batches when I first started out, I was know as the "Rebatch Queen"! The following oven technique is easy because you just grate the soap up, toss it in a stainless steel pot, cover and let it do its thing for an hour. No need to fuss with it at all.

OVEN REBATCH & CROCKPOT TOO

Quick question: I'm curious to know the name and author of the book where you found that recipe??? From the excellent advice above, it's obviously not the best choice for a beginner.

There's lots of good information in the Beginners Forum . You may want to spend some time browsing there before trying your next batch.

 

[MrsZ]

If you haven't done so yet, I would advise waiting a few days to rebatch. Give the oil a chance to reabsorb and the batch to harden up enough to make it easy to grate-up. On another group I rebatched so many batches when I first started out, I was know as the "Rebatch Queen"! The following oven technique is easy because you just grate the soap up, toss it in a stainless steel pot, cover and let it do its thing for an hour. No need to fuss with it at all.

OVEN REBATCH & CROCKPOT TOO

Quick question: I'm curious to know the name and author of the book where you found that recipe??? From the excellent advice above, it's obviously not the best choice for a beginner.

There's lots of good information in the Beginners Forum . You may want to spend some time browsing there before trying your next batch.

I already did this morning, I rebatched it in the crock pot. Next time I have to rebatch (hopefully there won't be a next time, but realistically there probably will) I will give it a few days first.

I have been reading everything I can on the beginners forum since finding this group. I'm grateful for all the information.

Also, the book I bought is The Natural Soapmaking Book for Beginners, by Kelly Cable.

 

[dibbles]

There is one other thing that I haven't seen anyone mention, and that is the safe usage rate for cinnamon leaf essential oil. Here are a couple of links that can help you understand how to check the IFRA rates for soap and other things you might make using EOs.
https://www.eocalc.com/enter-your-own-blend/https://lovinsoap.com/2016/07/understanding-ifra-guidelines-essential-oil-use-soap/
If I read everything correctly, it looks like your batch weight was approximately 50 oz. These images are from the linked sites above:

 

[MrsZ]

There is one other thing that I haven't seen anyone mention, and that is the safe usage rate for cinnamon leaf essential oil. Here are a couple of links that can help you understand how to check the IFRA rates for soap and other things you might make using EOs.
https://www.eocalc.com/enter-your-own-blend/https://lovinsoap.com/2016/07/understanding-ifra-guidelines-essential-oil-use-soap/
If I read everything correctly, it looks like your batch weight was approximately 50 oz. These images are from the linked sites above:
View attachment 56790View attachment 56792

Wow, I had no idea. I looked up a few different websites that recommended .5 oz ppo. Thank you for the links. Maybe for the time being I should switch to fragrance oils instead of essential oils, at least until I get basic Soapmaking understood a little better. I'm also thinking maybe my book wasn't as good as I thought it was.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

the book I bought is The Natural Soapmaking Book for Beginners, by Kelly Cable.

The Natural Soapmaking Book for Beginners, by Kelly Cable

It looks like you made a good choice to start your soaping Journey. I googled it and read reviews with most folks singing its praises. The one bad review was from a lady who objected to using lye for making soap. Imagine that!

Then I found a link to Kelly's blog: Simple Life Mom

I spent some time nosing around and really liked reading Her Story.
Since her blog covers more than just soaping, she covers the basics well enough but there are a few missing bits that you will pick up here as you go forward.

What I found the most interesting is that she has an Etsy shop where she sells her soaps and other B & B products. Then you can go to her blog and find recipes there to make the stuff she sells and more. Pretty impressive. And generous.

ETA:

maybe my book wasn't as good as I thought it was.

It's fine! Few soaping books cover all you need to know about essential oils. As I said, this is where your soaping pals at SMF will come in handy! The area of adding fragrance to your soaps is a whole new ballgame! I spent my first year learning to soap. I spend the next year learning about essentials oils.
And look... you're already picking up tidbits just in this thread alone.

Keep a notebook handy for just that purpose. You won't regret it.

 

[MrsZ]

The Natural Soapmaking Book for Beginners, by Kelly Cable

It looks like you made a good choice to start your soaping Journey. I googled it and read reviews with most folks singing its praises. The one bad review was from a lady who objected to using lye for making soap. Imagine that!

Then I found a link to Kelly's blog: Simple Life Mom

I spent some time nosing around and really liked reading Her Story.
Since her blog covers more than just soaping, she covers the basics well enough but there are a few missing bits that you will pick up here as you go forward.

What I found the most interesting is that she has an Etsy shop where she sells her soaps and other B & B products. Then you can go to her blog and find recipes there to make the stuff she sells and more. Pretty impressive. And generous.

ETA:

It's fine! Few soaping books cover all you need to know about essential oils. As I said, this is where your soaping pals at SMF will come in handy! The area of adding fragrance to your soaps is a whole new ballgame! I spent my first year learning to soap. I spend the next year learning about essentials oils.
And look... you're already picking up tidbits just in this thread alone.

Keep a notebook handy for just that purpose. You won't regret it.

Thanks! That's a relief, because I really like the book. I will check out her blog. Thanks for the resources.