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(Sugar doesn't work as an exfoliant - but does help boost lather/bubble.)

I am a little late to this party, but I will correct this statement. While most do not use sugar as an exfoliant it certainly can be used. In the past, I have made sugar bars very similar to salt bars without having to use the high superfat since sugar does not deter from the lather. When and if I ever get back to making soap I will be making some more since I loved them. I just used 100% sugar the same as making a salt bar.

I also agree a little salt is not going to hurt a stream. Also if one is worried about the tiny percentage of fo or EO in a bar of soap versus a stream make an unfragranced soap.

Do remember Joey, your soap needs to cure at least 4 weeks so if you have a trip coming up you need to plan ahead.
 

rdc1978

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I am a little late to this party, but I will correct this statement. While most do not use sugar as an exfoliant it certainly can be used. In the past, I have made sugar bars very similar to salt bars without having to use the high superfat since sugar does not deter from the lather. When and if I ever get back to making soap I will be making some more since I loved them. I just used 100% sugar the same as making a salt bar.

I also agree a little salt is not going to hurt a stream. Also if one is worried about the tiny percentage of fo or EO in a bar of soap versus a stream make an unfragranced soap.

Do remember Joey, your soap needs to cure at least 4 weeks so if you have a trip coming up you need to plan ahead.

Oh. I'd never heard of a sugar bar. I wonder if there are threads on here. I'd like to try that!
 
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He asked for versatile. Also, safety around streams and lakes? It rains, there's air pollution, dust, things that settle on the water surface, animals pee and excrement in those water sources, its not all untainted and magical. Water has to be tested, treated or filtered before drinking it to remove these things, so i doubt a little bit of salt water and natural oils would harm it. There's no reason why a beginner couldn't make this.

I am quite well aware of what goes into water that is out in the wild. There is a reason they suggest you use a Life Straw or other filtration/purification devices and methods for drinking water. I am not telling you MY opinion of what is safe or not, only what the "powers-that-be" determine what is safe or not. You get to determine what actions you take. I was pretty sure I made myself clear on that, but apparently not.

I still do not consider a solseife a beginner soap. Only because I usually suggest (see my many posts in the beginner forum stretching over the last 7 or so years) keeping the first few batches as simple as possible to get people used to making soap successfully. I also don't consider salt a safe additive to use around lakes where there will be fish fry (babies) around the perimeter of the lake and they are much more sensitive to environmental changes than adult fish.

I also do not consider solseife any more versatile than non-salt-containing soap. Why would you think it would be? There is no magic in salt for soap. The only thing a "versatile" soap needs to have to be used in either fresh or salt water is a very high Coconut Oil content.
 
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HoppyCosmetics

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The only thing a "versatile" soap needs to have to be used in either fresh or salt water is a very high Coconut Oil content.
Your argument against baby fish in the water makes no sense. A little bit of natural soap or soap containing salt wont harm the fish. For a start, there's already small amounts of salt in freshwater or lakes, aswell as other minerals. People, other animals, boats, and all-sorts of dirt go in that water. Joey mentioned the sweat from people washing in it, i mentioned animals excrement, and other natural pollutants that happens daily.

It wouldn't be called sailor soap or soleseife soap if a normal soap with a high coconut oil content worked exactly the same, which makes the soap made with salt water more versatile than a standard bar. And since its different to a salt soap bar, it shouldn't be any harder for a beginner to make. Wither you use plain water, brine or beer, anyone can make it, although i do agree that a salt soap bar (adding salt to the batter) could be harder to make for a beginner. And even that is more versatile because it acts as an exfoliant.
 
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Since you're out backpacking alot, there's a type of soap you could make called Soleseife Soap (aka. Sailor's Soap), and its one that you can use in seawater aswell as fresh water. Its made with salt water and is versatile, as it lathers really well in both types of water. The Nerdy Farm Wife has some online tutorials, and there's a decent youtube video about it here:

I sure do like her & videos 💫🧼🙌🏼
 
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Your argument against baby fish in the water makes no sense. A little bit of natural soap or soap containing salt wont harm the fish. For a start, there's already small amounts of salt in freshwater or lakes, aswell as other minerals. People, other animals, boats, and all-sorts of dirt go in that water. Joey mentioned the sweat from people washing in it, i mentioned animals excrement, and other natural pollutants that happens daily.

It wouldn't be called sailor soap or soleseife soap if a normal soap with a high coconut oil content worked exactly the same, which makes the soap made with salt water more versatile than a standard bar. And since its different to a salt soap bar, it shouldn't be any harder for a beginner to make. Wither you use plain water, brine or beer, anyone can make it, although i do agree that a salt soap bar (adding salt to the batter) could be harder to make for a beginner. And even that is more versatile because it acts as an exfoliant.

I'm wondering how to came to this conclusion; aka if you have education/training that can help us understand this better, please share. It would be very helpful for soap makers to know in the future.

But I'm concerned you're coming from a standpoint of assumption; aka "Nah, I'm just one person washing in one stream this one day, so I'm not going to hurt anything."

Water is a miracle. Please people. Don't assume that because you're one person with one bar of soap/detergent, washing 2 plates and a cup, that you don't have an affect. These guidelines exist worldwide for a reason.

Water is a polar molecule with a very special electrical charge, and that polarity is what makes water miraculous. It's why a drop of water on the counter mounds up (surface tension), it's why ice floats despite having the same density as water. Soaps and detergents break that electrical bond, therefore changing how water behaves. It's why the tiniest vessels in your capillaries can still carry blood. (capillaries can be so small that only one red blood cell can travel through at a time!)

I've kept freshwater aquarium for 20 years. First rule of fish keeping is never let anything that was EVER been washed in soap near your fish. Why? Because it never completely washes off. You can take an old used aquarium out of the attic, scrub it out with soap and rinse 100 times with vinegar and water and still have residue that will affect the health of your fish's ecosystem. Might kill your fish in days. Might not. But it will degrade the protective slime coat on your fish t hat is an important part of it's immune system, and 3 months later you'll be back at the fish store.

And salt, or soap on frog eggs, fish eggs? Tadpoles? Algae and water plants? Let's think about this:
I live near at the ocean where my local nursery has a list of veggies and plants that won't survive if your garden is with so many yards of the sea - because the salty moisture in the air will harm/kill them. People use salt water to kill weeds; plant their petunias in the same place and then wonder why they won't grow. Soap is used an insecticide.

Does one person washing 2 plates and a cup in a stream make a difference? Yes. Not the least of which is because that stream is part of a very long water system that with more streams, rivers, ponds, lakes, oceans. There are other people hiking along that stream, washing their dishes, hands, or clothes. The soap you use can break the polarity of the water, and starve water life of oxygen.

For anyone interesting, a short article with basic explanation on water's polarity and why it makes life possible. Properties of Water & Water Polarity Science Lesson | HST

But I think this simple kid's experiment might help people visualize the power of polarity:
 

HoppyCosmetics

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I'm wondering how to came to this conclusion; aka if you have education/training that can help us understand this better, please share. It would be very helpful for soap makers to know in the future.
That comment right there is patronising. Its pretty obvious that i dont have training in lakes. However, i kept a goldfish for 16 years in a standard fishbowl without a filter, and even changing its water completely can kill it. It needs to have part of the original water kept for its immune system.
Water is a polar molecule with a very special electrical charge, and that polarity is what makes water miraculous. It's why a drop of water on the counter mounds up (surface tension), it's why ice floats despite having the same density as water. Soaps and detergents break that electrical bond, therefore changing how water behaves. It's why the tiniest vessels in your capillaries can still carry blood. (capillaries can be so small that only one red blood cell can travel through at a time!)
Im wondering what part of google you copied and pasted this from!
I didn't come on a soap forum to argue with people and be shut down for suggesting soleseife soap to someone who asked for something versatile. Ive already had Susie talk down to me as if she knows best. If lakes are so sacred and nothing can touch the waters surface, then lakes should be fenced off. Like i said, there's lots of things that go into that water daily, wither its natural or damaging, than someone using a true soap with natural oils on the odd occasion. Think about the maintenance of a boat, even that will affect the ph level of aquatic life. Everything will. Its common sense, that if you are hiking or even if you are homeless, you do what it takes to survive, and that includes hunting for food. Anyone who eats meat, eats fish or has ever stepped foot in a lake to swim, has no business complaining about fish in a lake, ph levels or anything related, which is double standards.

Im not as hardcore eco friendly as greta thunberg, but even she is being used as a pawn to promote climate change, and the fact she can't answer questions on her own without a script says it all. She's a hypocrite who's been caught using plastic bottles, while promoting that plastic is bad.
 
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dibbles

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In the northern part of the state I live in (Minnesota, USA) there is a very special area - the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness (BWCAW). This environment is highly protected to keep it as pristine as possible and there are regulations when visiting. The waterways are largely paddle only, and there is a strict 'leave no trace' policy. Everything brought in is to be brought out. Here is a link if anyone is interested in reading what is expected of people who go there. For those who don't want to read, but are curious about the impact of soap on water (including biodegradable soap) this is the pertinent excerpt:
Capture.JPG
I am sharing this as a point of interest with no intent to start or join an argument, and no intended disrespect to anyone.
 
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That comment right there is patronising. Its pretty obvious that i dont have training in lakes. However, i kept a goldfish for 16 years in a standard fishbowl without a filter, and even changing its water completely can kill it. It needs to have part of the original water kept for its immune system.

Im wondering what part of google you copied and pasted this from!
I didn't come on a soap forum to argue with people and be shut down for suggesting soleseife soap to someone who asked for something versatile. Ive already had Susie talk down to me as if she knows best. If lakes are so sacred and nothing can touch the waters surface, then lakes should be fenced off. Like i said, there's lots of things that go into that water daily, wither its natural or damaging, than someone using a true soap with natural oils on the odd occasion. Think about the maintenance of a boat, even that will affect the ph level of aquatic life. Everything will. Its common sense, that if you are hiking or even if you are homeless, you do what it takes to survive, and that includes hunting for food. Anyone who eats meat, eats fish or has ever stepped foot in a lake to swim, has no business complaining about fish in a lake, ph levels or anything related, which is double standards.

Im not as hardcore eco friendly as greta thunberg, but even she is being used as a pawn to promote climate change, and the fact she can't answer questions on her own without a script says it all. She's a hypocrite who's been caught using plastic bottles, while promoting that plastic is bad.

My comment was not patronizing. I'm sorry you thought it was, and don't see how I could have worded it better. I was hoping you were a civil engineer or ecologist or something that could give us the details as to why you said what you said and teach us something. It's difficult to discern on a forum if people are talking from knowledge or not. You "sounded" so sure of yourself, I suspected you had training, so I asked.

I didn't copy and paste my comment about the chemistry of water - that is my own hard earned knowledge from recent college science courses I've taken as I work on finishing my degree. The chemistry of water molecules fascinates me, because this simple slight imbalance of electrical charge is what makes life possible.

Perhaps your anger with Susie has clouded your judgment when reading my post. I'll overlook your insult, and assume your temper just got the better of you and hope we can move on from here.

As for the rest of your statements about lakes, and homeless, and boats, and double standards, I can't comment. Countries all over the world go to great expense to inform hikers/campers and others how to make the least amount of impact on the environment as possible. They don't do it for their entertainment, they have good reason, and I hope that people listen.

I also can't explain how your poor goldfish survived 16 years in an unfiltered, uncycled bowl unless you changed its water daily, or added Amquel or the like every day. Goldfish are called "dirty" fish because they produce so much ammonia, which degrades into nitrite and nitrates, which can eat away at their gills and cause infections. The minimum recommended size for a single goldfish is 10 gallon/38 liter cycled tank, with a very powerful filter. The old water that is saved doesn't do anything for its immune system...it's too toxic.
 

HoppyCosmetics

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Perhaps your anger with Susie has clouded your judgment when reading my post. I'll overlook your insult, and assume your temper just got the better of you and hope we can move on from here.
I also can't explain how your poor goldfish survived 16 years in an unfiltered, uncycled bowl
Your first reply was not only patronising, but now these replies are narcissistic, because i didn't display any anger, temper, or insults to be overlooked, and nothing has clouded my judgement. It was an opinion. Also, my goldfish was also well looked after, so don't start with the "poor goldfish" routine just because you have an aquarium. If you actually knew anything about fish or took the time to research it, you'd know that they can survive in a bowl without a filter and can live a longer life than some in an aquarium with a filter. There's your insult!
 
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If you are adding sugar for bubbles you can disolve it into hot water and add it at anytime.
A tsp PPO (per pound of oil, or for 500g) is a good amount for that purpose.

If you want sugar for scrubbies I would use between 1 tsp and 1tbsp PPO. Start with the lower amount in small batches and add more until you are satisfied. Add them at the end so that they are less likely to completely dissolve in the batter. And keep in mind that adding sugar can heat up your batter, which could be bad for eo's, fo's, and volcanoes in the mold.

The other good additives for scrubbies I have seen are citrus rines and the poppy seeds above. (And by good, I mean that I haven't seen somebody contradicting the post saying, "they're too abrasive for me" which is really subjective 'cause everyone's skin is different.)
 
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Actually, sugar will work as an exfoliant if you do not dissolve the sugar and add it in as you would salt in a salt bar. I used to make a sugar bar that sold quite well for folks wanting the sting of salt in a salt bar. Sugar will not dissolve in oils or in the soap batter. You also do not have to up superfat or CO as you do with a salt bar because the sugar does not deter lather.
 
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