Help: can you force a cure after soap has gelled?

[candipill]

Hi there

I would like to ask your help on somewhat strange questions I think. I made a batch of soap where I tried a version of the CPOP method. I poured my soap batter into silicone moulds and stuck it in the oven heated to 60 Deg Celsius and then turned it off. I left it in there overnight. I was under the impression that it would cure right away and that I could use it 24 hours later. The soap has that gelled look where it looks more translucent than opaque like regular CP soap. I got out a bar and soaped up my hands with it but my skin feels a bit itchy.

Does this indicate that the soap is not cured yet or does it mean that there is still unsaponified lye in it?

My second question is: If I reheat the oven to 60 Deg Celsius, and place the soap on an oven mat and leave it in there for about 20 minutes - will it be possible to force a cure in the event that it hasn't oven cured yet?

The reason I want to force the cure is that I was hoping to surprise my people with a handmade Christmas gift!

Please excuse my extreme naivete.

Candice

I should add that it is Coconut/Olive/Palm/Castor oil soap and I calculated it in Soap Calc!

 

[Catscankim]

It still takes 4-6 weeks to cure hun. Cpop only forces gel, not cure, if thats what you are asking.

 

[candipill]

It still takes 4-6 weeks to cure hun. Cpop only forces gel, not cure, if thats what you are asking.

Thank you Catscankim for responding to my questions. I appreciate your time and effort in doing so. So now I have learned an important lesson about curing. And I am wholeheartedly guilty then of not paying too much attention to soapmaking 101, it seems.

I guess I will have to put "only use after xx January 2021" disclaimer/warning labels on the soap if I want to give them out as stocking fillers - which I suppose is not as big a smash as burning my family's skin off with uncured soap!!!
Thanks so much for giving me the heads up.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Yes, as @Catscankim has said, the gel does not mean that you can reduce the cure time. Have you tried a zap test on it? If it zaps, then it still has unsaponified lye in it and will take a day or two before that goes away. After that, the longer it cures the milder it will be. Minimum cure time is usually 4 weeks.
If you find that it still makes your skin itchy after a 6 week cure, then there could be any number of reasons for that. Did you keep your CO at 25% or lower? Many people can't tolerate it higher than 20%. What is your superfat amount? Some people are also irritated by OO.
Maybe post your recipe from soap calc so we can scrutinise it for you
It may still be possible to gift it to your family and friends, but just pop a warning note with it asking them to leave it unwrapped and unused for another 4 weeks after opening.

 

[candipill]

Yes, as @Catscankim has said, the gel does not mean that you can reduce the cure time. Have you tried a zap test on it? If it zaps, then it still has unsaponified lye in it and will take a day or two before that goes away. After that, the longer it cures the milder it will be. Minimum cure time is usually 4 weeks.
If you find that it still makes your skin itchy after a 6 week cure, then there could be any number of reasons for that. Did you keep your CO at 25% or lower? Many people can't tolerate it higher than 20%. What is your superfat amount? Some people are also irritated by OO.
Maybe post your recipe from soap calc so we can scrutinise it for you
It may still be possible to gift it to your family and friends, but just pop a warning note with it asking them to leave it unwrapped and unused for another 4 weeks after opening.

Thank you KiwiMoose

Hmm, woops - My coconut oil was at 40% and superfatted at 20%. But the reason I did that was that I read somewhere that coconut oil soap is the only thing that will soap up in ocean/sea water. And once before I have made a 100% Coconut Oil CP with a superfat at 20% and I didn't really remember having any super noteworthy adverse reactions to it. But, - having said that - I also use raw coconut oil as a moisturiser/lotion, directly after I shower - so maybe it counter-balanced the negative effects of the "saponified" coconut oil (just taking a guess here). And so maybe I didnt notice it before because of that.

So the recipe looked like this:
Coconut Oil 40%
Castor Oil 10 %
Palm Oil 30%
Olive Oil 20%

I think it is most likely that the itch is due to the fact that the soap has not cured - as the two of you above have advised. I somehow thought it if you put it in the oven - it is like hot process soap - but as it turns out - that's some flawed logic there!!!

I was too nervous to do the tongue zap test - I suppose I should. I read the thread about how to do it correctly, I am very glad that I dont have to actually lick the soap.

I think I am going to have to put a warning/disclaimer label on it.

Thank you for taking the time to respond and offering to look at the recipe for me.

Much appreciated.

 

[AliOop]

Even hot process soap has to cure to be ideal. People will tell you that you can use it right away, and yes, you can, but it is not ideal to do so.

The only thing that hot process does (and CPOP, to some extent) is speed up the saponification, which is the process of converting lye and fat into soap.

Your cold process soap will also be fully saponified normally within 48-72 hours. But again, that just means it is safe to use, not ideal to use.

Sorry to burst your bubble. The good thing is, after it is cured, your homemade soap is still going to be nicer on the skin than most mass-produced soap. We’d love to see some pics of your new soap if you would like to share.

 

[Misschief]

I somehow thought it if you put it in the oven - it is like hot process soap - but as it turns out - that's some flawed logic there!!!

No, not flawed logic on the CP part of things; it's flawed logic where it comes to hot process. There's a myth out there that HP soap is ready to use as soon as it's done cooking. It has saponified; it is SAFE to use but HP soap takes just as long to cure as CP. Once any soap has fully saponified, it is safe to use. However, curing is a whole 'nother thing. All soap needs to cure. HP and CP are simply the methods used to saponify the oils and the lye.

Think of it as fine wine - it may be wine, and drinkable, but it tastes a whole lot better once you let the wine age. It's the same with soap - curing goes on at a molecular level and that takes time whether you're using the HP or CP method.

oops... AliOop and I posted at the same time.

 

[TheGecko]

CP (cold process), HP (hot process) and CPOP (cold process oven process) only relate to the time it takes to turn fat and lye (aka saponify) into soap.

In HP, the soap is 'cooked' to speed up the process...takes just a few hours. In CP...the soap batter is just poured into molds and allowed to do its thing, takes anywhere between 18 and 24 hours. In CPOP, molds sit in a low oven (oven is heated to the lowest temp and then shut off) to speed up the process to about 10 to 12 hours. You can also do the same process by using a heating pad.

Regardless of which 'process' you use, soap still needs, depending on recipe, 4 to 8 weeks to 'cure'. And the 'curing' process is two-fold: 1) the reduction of water via evaporation which produces a harder bar that will last longer. 2) chemical processes that are occurring that produces a milder bar of soap.

 

[cmzaha]

Your soap should be fine after cure. With a 20% superfat the percentage of CO should also be okay. To zap test just wet your finger and rub it over the bar and tap your finger to your tongue after your soap has sat for 72 hrs minimum. Never touch your tongue directly on the soap when zap testing. If it zaps which I highly doubt just let your soap cure for four weeks and it will be good to go. CO when making soap does not retain the same qualities as it does when using in butters, lotions, or just out of the container for moisturizing.

 

[Lperdue]

Thank you Catscankim for responding to my questions. I appreciate your time and effort in doing so. So now I have learned an important lesson about curing. And I am wholeheartedly guilty then of not paying too much attention to soapmaking 101, it seems.

I guess I will have to put "only use after xx January 2021" disclaimer/warning labels on the soap if I want to give them out as stocking fillers - which I suppose is not as big a smash as burning my family's skin off with uncured soap!!!
Thanks so much for giving me the heads up.

I have my soaps in a cabinet with a small dehumidifer and it seems for me to help dry them out a little faster

 

[Misschief]

I have my soaps in a cabinet with a small dehumidifer and it seems for me to help dry them out a little faster

As per @TheGecko's quote below, curing is more than just drying the soap. There's more going on at a molecular level than just water evaporating, which is why, no matter what you do, it will take 4-8 weeks, and sometimes even longer.

Regardless of which 'process' you use, soap still needs, depending on recipe, 4 to 8 weeks to 'cure'. And the 'curing' process is two-fold: 1) the reduction of water via evaporation which produces a harder bar that will last longer. 2) chemical processes that are occurring that produces a milder bar of soap.

 

[candipill]

Even hot process soap has to cure to be ideal. People will tell you that you can use it right away, and yes, you can, but it is not ideal to do so.

The only thing that hot process does (and CPOP, to some extent) is speed up the saponification, which is the process of converting lye and fat into soap.

Your cold process soap will also be fully saponified normally within 48-72 hours. But again, that just means it is safe to use, not ideal to use.

Sorry to burst your bubble. The good thing is, after it is cured, your homemade soap is still going to be nicer on the skin than most mass-produced soap. We’d love to see some pics of your new soap if you would like to share.

Thank you for your response.

I have learned some good lessons and I appreciate the feedback.

I eventually did put labels on the soap with a warning label. I didn't take any pictures of the soap before I wrapped them unfortunately, because I was in a hurry to get it ready before Christmas, but I will do so next time I attempt it.

Again, thank you for your assistance.

No, not flawed logic on the CP part of things; it's flawed logic where it comes to hot process. There's a myth out there that HP soap is ready to use as soon as it's done cooking. It has saponified; it is SAFE to use but HP soap takes just as long to cure as CP. Once any soap has fully saponified, it is safe to use. However, curing is a whole 'nother thing. All soap needs to cure. HP and CP are simply the methods used to saponify the oils and the lye.

Think of it as fine wine - it may be wine, and drinkable, but it tastes a whole lot better once you let the wine age. It's the same with soap - curing goes on at a molecular level and that takes time whether you're using the HP or CP method.

oops... AliOop and I posted at the same time.

I like the wine analogy - that makes perfect sense to me in a far more embodied sense than I like to admit!

CP (cold process), HP (hot process) and CPOP (cold process oven process) only relate to the time it takes to turn fat and lye (aka saponify) into soap.

In HP, the soap is 'cooked' to speed up the process...takes just a few hours. In CP...the soap batter is just poured into molds and allowed to do its thing, takes anywhere between 18 and 24 hours. In CPOP, molds sit in a low oven (oven is heated to the lowest temp and then shut off) to speed up the process to about 10 to 12 hours. You can also do the same process by using a heating pad.

Regardless of which 'process' you use, soap still needs, depending on recipe, 4 to 8 weeks to 'cure'. And the 'curing' process is two-fold: 1) the reduction of water via evaporation which produces a harder bar that will last longer. 2) chemical processes that are occurring that produces a milder bar of soap.

Excuse my ignorance please and (maybe it is due to me being South African, living in one of the hottest parts of South Africa and we never have to heat anything up that is not food) - but may I ask about a "heating pad"? What is it? - Is it like those things you put in the microwave to warm up beds in winter?
And would you put the soap in the mould on it?

Apologies again for my ignorance, I realise this might sound like a ridiculous question.

I have my soaps in a cabinet with a small dehumidifer and it seems for me to help dry them out a little faster

That is a great tip - most definitely will try that! Thank you.

 

[Misschief]

Excuse my ignorance please and (maybe it is due to me being South African, living in one of the hottest parts of South Africa and we never have to heat anything up that is not food) - but may I ask about a "heating pad"? What is it? - Is it like those things you put in the microwave to warm up beds in winter?
And would you put the soap in the mould on it?

Apologies again for my ignorance, I realise this might sound like a ridiculous question.

A heating pad is just that.... usually, you plug it in and it maintains a steady temperature. Not a ridiculous question at all, just a cultural difference. You wouldn't need one there, obviously; here, they can come in pretty handy.

 

[candipill]

Your soap should be fine after cure. With a 20% superfat the percentage of CO should also be okay. To zap test just wet your finger and rub it over the bar and tap your finger to your tongue after your soap has sat for 72 hrs minimum. Never touch your tongue directly on the soap when zap testing. If it zaps which I highly doubt just let your soap cure for four weeks and it will be good to go. CO when making soap does not retain the same qualities as it does when using in butters, lotions, or just out of the container for moisturizing.

I am learning so much here and I am so grateful for it. The Zap test sounds intense, I am going to mentally prepare myself for this.

 

[Misschief]

That is a great tip - most definitely will try that! Thank you.

As others have mentioned, curing is more than the moisture evaporating from the soap. It may speed the drying process but not the curing process.

 

[candipill]

A heating pad is just that.... usually, you plug it in and it maintains a steady temperature. Not a ridiculous question at all, just a cultural difference. You wouldn't need one there, obviously; here, they can come in pretty handy.

Aha, thanks!

 

[Misschief]

May I suggest an experiment for you? Take one of your freshly cut bars of soap, weigh it, mark down the weight. Do it again tomorrow, and the next day, and so on until the soap no longer loses weight. That usually takes about 4 weeks.

 

[candipill]

I will try that, sounds like a great experiment - I am going to have to make a new batch though because I already gave the other ones away as Christmas Presents. I might even try to do a colourised batch this time!

 

[Zing]

Excuse my ignorance please and (maybe it is due to me being South African, living in one of the hottest parts of South Africa and we never have to heat anything up that is not food) - but may I ask about a "heating pad"? What is it? - Is it like those things you put in the microwave to warm up beds in winter?
And would you put the soap in the mould on it?

Apologies again for my ignorance, I realise this might sound like a ridiculous question.

Good luck to you soaping! A heating pad -- shaped like a doubled face towel with a heating element inside -- is most commonly used if you have a sore back muscle. You lay on a heating pad to feel better. Like many things (milk cartons, candy molds, chopsticks), soapers re-purpose heating pads for soaping purposes! I like my soap to 'gel' and if I soap at cool temperatures, I will place the mold directly on the heating pad and cover it all with several towels.

Your comment about the thing to warm up beds took me back to our trip to Namibia. The days were hot but the nights were freezing. One night we stayed in magical lodging carved into a tree and boulders, totally open to the elements. When we went to bed, we were surprised to find heated hot water bottles in our bed that were quite effective. Thanks for the memory!

 

[candipill]

Good luck to you soaping! A heating pad -- shaped like a doubled face towel with a heating element inside -- is most commonly used if you have a sore back muscle. You lay on a heating pad to feel better. Like many things (milk cartons, candy molds, chopsticks), soapers re-purpose heating pads for soaping purposes! I like my soap to 'gel' and if I soap at cool temperatures, I will place the mold directly on the heating pad and cover it all with several towels.

Your comment about the thing to warm up beds took me back to our trip to Namibia. The days were hot but the nights were freezing. One night we stayed in magical lodging carved into a tree and boulders, totally open to the elements. When we went to bed, we were surprised to find heated hot water bottles in our bed that were quite effective. Thanks for the memory!

Thank you for telling me how to do that - so basically, insulate the soap right on the heating pad.

Ahhh Namibia - one of my most vivid memories of it is climbing up Dune Seven and reaching the top just around sunset and then looking out on the desert expanse of dunes, it felt like the whole world was covered in an ethereal Cerise-coloured light. Was the most extraordinarily beautiful thing. Thank you for that memory!!!

I have one of those hot water/gel bottle things that you plug in and heat up for your bed that I got as a present once - I have never actually used it here for that purpose so it's really great that you explained how you use it for soap, I will certainly try it and for once get to use it.

Thanks again for your help!